Returned goods not arrived?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

izziewiz wrote: »

DOH!! The value of the shoes was £27.98. I have contacted the seller again to confirm that they have/have not received the shoes back & will start a claim from Royal Mail and I will also send the original Proof of Postage as they have requested. On their website it states that if the item wasn't faulty I had to pay the postage myself. I haven't contacted Amazon yet but will do so later today for any advice they may have and will post their answer.
Thanks.

Good to hear you have a proof of posting , just to note, if claiming from Royal Mail you'd need to wait 15 working days from the date you posted (and claim before 80 days have past) but may be limited to £20 compensation including the cost of postage paid for the return (I'm sure it was lowered from April 2nd 2013).

It is correct that, if stated, the customer must pay the cost of return when changing their mind but this request needs to have been provided by email or on paper with the goods.

When contacting Amazon I would tell them you've returned, have proof of posting and according to Amazon's own help pages wasn't required to use any tracking:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=hp_1161010_top_ret?nodeId=1161010#return

I think the best Amazon would do is restore your original payment leaving you having just paid out the cost of return which is about right.

unholyangel

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

But if you read my first post in the thread it says "if...".



No I'm not the OP? Yes I do run a (small) business, would be a lot of Christmas cards otherwise;)

My point is the OP has been told to claim from RM and that the seller should not have to be abide by a "silly" law (as well as being called a knob) whereas the most likely situation is the seller has the goods but it's convenient to say they don't as they weren't tracked but regardless and as I said before, "If you [the OP] told the company you were returning/cancelling within the time advised by durable means (or within 3 months and 7 working days of receipt if no information presented) and the parcel was clearly and correctly addressed (and I should have added have proof of return) then let Amazon know you have followed the requirements for the DSR regs and require their assistance in receiving your refund which is due.

If the above was followed the seller is obligated to refund within 30 days of the cancellation request, it's an unconditional right.

(6) Where the consumer delivers the goods in accordance with paragraph (5)(a), his obligation to take care of the goods shall cease; and if he sends the goods in accordance with paragraph (5)(b), he shall be under a duty to take reasonable care to see that they are received by the supplier and not damaged in transit, but in other respects his duty to take care of the goods shall cease when he sends them.

Suppose it depends whether non-tracked = reasonable care.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

unholyangel wrote: »

Suppose it depends whether non-tracked = reasonable care.

Well what is tracked? Recorded Delivery isn't and travels with normal post, to suggest the consumer's care includes obtaining a signature in case the retailer is either dishonest or incompetent would be very hard to demonstrate.

So that leaves us with Special Delivery or a courier, courier may be disproportionately inconvenient to the consumer and SD is expensive, if the retailer found it suitable to send via standard post it would suggest that it is equally suitable the other way around.

Although compensation is less than the goods there is little point spending an extra £3 or £4 to insure the goods for the additional £8.

If the seller was sending lots of shoes and had a good rate with a courier they could always offer a collection and deduct that direct cost from the refund.

unholyangel

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »

Well what is tracked? Recorded Delivery isn't and travels with normal post, to suggest the consumer's care includes obtaining a signature in case the retailer is either dishonest or incompetent would be very hard to demonstrate.

So that leaves us with Special Delivery or a courier, courier may be disproportionately inconvenient to the consumer and SD is expensive, if the retailer found it suitable to send via standard post it would suggest that it is equally suitable the other way around.

Although compensation is less than the goods there is little point spending an extra £3 or £4 to insure the goods for the additional £8.

If the seller was sending lots of shoes and had a good rate with a courier they could always offer a collection and deduct that direct cost from the refund.

I assume reasonable care would include the value of the items. Sending a £5 item back by normal post may seem reasonable. Sending a £1000 laptop would not.

Has OP mentioned value of the shoes?

And recorded delivery may not be fully tracked, but they do obtain a signature. Proof of posting isnt proof of delivery, a signature is. Doesnt necessarily prove it was delivered to the correct address but it would likely be enough to satisfy the reasonable care to ensure the goods are received element (again, depending on value).

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

unholyangel wrote: »

I assume reasonable care would include the value of the items. Sending a £5 item back by normal post may seem reasonable. Sending a £1000 laptop would not.

Has OP mentioned value of the shoes?

And recorded delivery may not be fully tracked, but they do obtain a signature. Proof of posting isnt proof of delivery, a signature is. Doesnt necessarily prove it was delivered to the correct address but it would likely be enough to satisfy the reasonable care to ensure the goods are received element (again, depending on value).

OP paid £27.98.

The point regs make is that the buyer has care to see that they will arrive, not that they actually do, using the national postage service, clearly addressing the parcel and obtaining proof of sending should more than fulfil this. I fully agree a £1000 item 1st class wouldn't be due care but where is the line is the question.

Burdening the consumer with the cost of obtaining a signature is unnecessary and unfair. Recorded Delivery is far from reliable and may lead to the parcel being delivered but not signed for and unscrupulous sellers (such as some of the less professional sellers on marketplaces with their poor terms and lack of interest in customer care) may take advantage of this meaning the enhanced service actually puts the consumer in a worse position.