Small Claims Court guide

[Deleted User]

I recently took a garage to small claims for overcharging me for something. They made a low offer but added that unless I accepted they would "take it further" and counterclaim for the time it has taken them and the stress caused.

Surely they can't threaten like that? Its like saying unless you agree we're going to get you. Can they do this? Surely if this can be done, any big companies could just say you've wasted our time so we're going to set our expensive lawyers onto you to scare you off.....

They even put this statement in their official defence which is strange.

Can I complain about their conduct to anyone?

Crazy_Jamie

[quote=[Deleted User];76125975]I recently took a garage to small claims for overcharging me for something. They made a low offer but added that unless I accepted they would "take it further" and counterclaim for the time it has taken them and the stress caused.

Surely they can't threaten like that? Its like saying unless you agree we're going to get you. Can they do this? Surely if this can be done, any big companies could just say you've wasted our time so we're going to set our expensive lawyers onto you to scare you off.....

They even put this statement in their official defence which is strange.

Can I complain about their conduct to anyone?[/QUOTE]They can threaten it, but it doesn't mean that they can do anything with that threat. It is very common for parties, whether legally represented or not, to make an offer and then lay out the consequences if you do not accept the offer. Of course that threat carries more weight in some situations than others.

Here they cannot counterclaim for time taken in dealing with the claim and stress. If they successfully resist your claim they may be able to recover their costs depending on how the case has been allocated. If this is a fast track case they would automatically be entitled to recover their costs, whereas if (as I suspect) it is a small claim, they could make an application for costs but would only likely succeed in that if they could show that your conduct was unreasonable in some way, which is a high bar and generally unlikely to succeed. If they are awarded their costs then that is when they claim for time spent, by way of what is called a preparation time order (essentially an order that compensates a non legally represented party for time spent on a claim). They cannot claim for stress either way.

In terms of complaining, if they are representing themselves then they are not regulated when it comes to conducting litigation. The only thing you could do is raise their conduct with the Judge at the end of the case if you win, but honestly it doesn't sound like they have done anything unreasonable strictly speaking. The approach they've taken is similar to the one that solicitors often take, albeit it is incompetent because they've threatened something that they can't actually do.

Pollycat

[quote=[Deleted User];76125975]I recently took a garage to small claims for overcharging me for something. They made a low offer but added that unless I accepted they would "take it further" and counterclaim for the time it has taken them and the stress caused.

Surely they can't threaten like that? Its like saying unless you agree we're going to get you. Can they do this? Surely if this can be done, any big companies could just say you've wasted our time so we're going to set our expensive lawyers onto you to scare you off.....

They even put this statement in their official defence which is strange.

Can I complain about their conduct to anyone?[/QUOTE]

You've started your own thread about this (but didn't mention it was a garage that had overcharged you).
When there are 2 versions of the same thread it tends to get messy, disjointed and confusing.
I'd delete your post here and edit your first post on the separate thread.

NutWorld

^^^^

For future reference, that thread can be located here
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6034154/small-claims-court-defendant-is-threatening-to-counter-claim-if-i-dont-accept-his-offer

Vivaciawood

In May we moved house and used a company, the move on the day went well. I had reminded the boss that there was a long ladder on top of the shed which needed moving, once when the first van was half full, then again when the second van was half full. I even offered to load it on top of my van if one of them could help me get it from the shed roof and was assured it would be loaded.

2 days after the move I discovered the laddered hadn't been loaded so we emailed the boss and he accepted in writing that he remembers me "mentioning" the ladder (I can't see how he could argue that means anything other than instructing him it needs moving given the circumstances). He checked with a colleague and came back confirming it was probably left behind and instructed us to arrange for him to go back and collect it which we did. He then failed to collect it as arranged, and from a later visit he arranged himself it turns out the ladder was stolen when left out for him to collect originally. This is all confirmed in emails from him.

He now stated that he frustratingly had to replace me ladder. To me this is an admission of liability. He asked for measurements and when I sent a link to the ladder he replied saying he was obliged to put me back in the same situation and replace like for like, which is citation of civil law. I said that I wasn't happy about a piece of safety equipment which my life literally depends on it's condition essentially, but would accept a used item if I could inspect it first. No response for a week then when I chased him to find out what was going on he then stated that his T&C's state it was my responsibility "to make all reasonable effort to ensure everything to be moved is and nothing which shouldn't be moved isn't". He then claimed everything he had done up to this point had been out of "goodwill gesture".

To me I firmly believe that instructing him to load the ladder twice and even offering to use my own vehicle is beyond reasonable given they are a removal company. The fact I instructed him he admits in writing. The only extra reasonable thing I could have done would have been to check before leaving, at which point both his vans were completely packed with no space for a ladder. I would have HAD to use my own vehicle which is unreasonable given we paid them to move everything.

Can he argue what he did was goodwill despite having accepted he had my instruction on the move date, failing to collect the ladder a second time as per his own instruction which resulted in it's theft, and then admitting liability by stating he was obliged to replace the item?!

I have emailed him twice since and offered to accept a sum lower than the ladders value just to move past the issue without needed to make a claim against him, only to be told he would not reply unless from a legal approach. The whole situation seems completely absurd!

Any advice on if I have a strong claim or if his "goodwill" argument holds any weight would be appreciated.

Thanks

waamo

What's the value of this ladder? If it's not huge then it may not be worth going to court over.

Regardless of that I would send a formal Letter Before Claim just to see if he coughs up anyway.

Vivaciawood

It's only about £150. However I use it regularly for work and currently do not have a replacement. It's just incredibly frustrating that he stated in writing he accepted he knew he was under notice to move the ladder, then admitted liability and now won't respond at all to even go halves on a replacement.
Further to this I wrote an honest and factual (based on the correspondence) review of my experience using the company and he threatened to sue me for defamation, which I can only interpret as intimidation to make the whole issue go away. I've removed the review for now but have had a solicitor look at the emails and my review and told me it's absolutely fine.

wagtamm

Vivaciawood wrote: »

In May we moved house and used a company, the move on the day went well. I had reminded the boss that there was a long ladder on top of the shed which needed moving, once when the first van was half full, then again when the second van was half full. I even offered to load it on top of my van if one of them could help me get it from the shed roof and was assured it would be loaded.

2 days after the move I discovered the laddered hadn't been loaded so we emailed the boss and he accepted in writing that he remembers me "mentioning" the ladder (I can't see how he could argue that means anything other than instructing him it needs moving given the circumstances). He checked with a colleague and came back confirming it was probably left behind and instructed us to arrange for him to go back and collect it which we did. He then failed to collect it as arranged, and from a later visit he arranged himself it turns out the ladder was stolen when left out for him to collect originally. This is all confirmed in emails from him.

He now stated that he frustratingly had to replace me ladder. To me this is an admission of liability. He asked for measurements and when I sent a link to the ladder he replied saying he was obliged to put me back in the same situation and replace like for like, which is citation of civil law. I said that I wasn't happy about a piece of safety equipment which my life literally depends on it's condition essentially, but would accept a used item if I could inspect it first. No response for a week then when I chased him to find out what was going on he then stated that his T&C's state it was my responsibility "to make all reasonable effort to ensure everything to be moved is and nothing which shouldn't be moved isn't". He then claimed everything he had done up to this point had been out of "goodwill gesture".

To me I firmly believe that instructing him to load the ladder twice and even offering to use my own vehicle is beyond reasonable given they are a removal company. The fact I instructed him he admits in writing. The only extra reasonable thing I could have done would have been to check before leaving, at which point both his vans were completely packed with no space for a ladder. I would have HAD to use my own vehicle which is unreasonable given we paid them to move everything.

Can he argue what he did was goodwill despite having accepted he had my instruction on the move date, failing to collect the ladder a second time as per his own instruction which resulted in it's theft, and then admitting liability by stating he was obliged to replace the item?!

I have emailed him twice since and offered to accept a sum lower than the ladders value just to move past the issue without needed to make a claim against him, only to be told he would not reply unless from a legal approach. The whole situation seems completely absurd!

Any advice on if I have a strong claim or if his "goodwill" argument holds any weight would be appreciated.

Thanks

TL;DR

But have you reported the theft to the police? Have you a crime number?

If you want to try and claim for this theft, it is the thief you need to pursue as they are responsible.

Vivaciawood

Well my claim is against his first act of negligence for not moving it in the first place, then second act of negligence for failing to carry out the task as he instructed me to arrange for him the second time. Had he told me he would not make the collection I would have done so myself. So I believe he is entirely responsible on both counts for me missing my item. He admitted liability for these reasons. I think it's just a question of whether his T&Cs do indeed make it my responsibility and if he can argue goodwill on his later attempts to resolve the issue.

wagtamm

Vivaciawood wrote: »

Well my claim is against his first act of negligence for not moving it in the first place, then second act of negligence for failing to carry out the task as he instructed me to arrange for him the second time. ... So I believe he is entirely responsible on both counts for me missing my item.

Well good luck with that then

Vivaciawood wrote: »

He admitted liability for these reasons.

What evidence do you have of this 'admission'?

In your earlier post you indicate it was only an inference you drew, based upon a message you had received; an inference that may not be drawn by others. At the very least, it would seem such an inference will be actively and forcibly contested if you were to attempt to use it to support your claim against this particular person.

As I said, it is the thief that is responsible for any loss you incurred when the ladder was stolen. (but you probably won't get any recompense there either, even if you do ever find out who stole it)