NatWest refusing to refund fraudulent transactions

Higgins91

Hi everyone,

First of all, apologies if I have placed this post in the wrong section of the forum! Feel free to move it!

I was wondering if any of you could help me with this issue I am having with NatWest regarding fraudulent transactions they are refusing to refund.

On 14th April, my credit card was stolen and the thieves managed to withdraw €250 from my account (I am currently studying in France as part of the year abroad component of my degree). I reported the card stolen upon finding it missing and was shocked to hear that the card has been used. What was even more shocking and quite baffling was how the thieves managed to withdraw money from a cash machine. I NEVER give my PIN to anyone, NEVER write it down and it is not a number that can be easily guessed. After going all the way up to appeals level, NatWest are still refusing to refund the money. They are making me liable for the money as well as the cash advance fee and the foreign currency fees. I have had no choice but to go to the Ombudsman. I am a student with no income apart from my student loan and I cannot afford to lose this amount of money. What frustrates and really upsets me is that NatWest are insinuating that I am making the whole thing up. They have written in their final decision letter:

"Following my investigation, I am unable to accept the disputed transactions a total of £212.98 on the above card as fraudulent."

and

"This is because the transaction was authorised using the correct details on your card. The PIN was input correctly on the first attempt. I can only conclude that the transaction was authorised by you, or someone known to you with your permission."

I am utterly appalled by the way I have been treated. Can they do this to me and make me liable for the fraudulent transactions? I do no understand how the thieves knew my PIN. I take all precautions to conceal it when I use 'Chip and PIN' machines. Please help!

I have told NatWest where the cash machine is likely to be located because the name of the French bank and the post code of the location was listed in the transactions' details. I have told them to look at the CCTV footage which would clearly show that the transactions were not carried out by myself (lots of cash machines have CCTV cameras fitted next to them here) but they will not listen. I was also told the card was attempted to be used on a gambling website the next day after the card had been blocked (thank goodness!). Why can't they trace the IP? It's as if they are not interested at all and only have one thing in mind (but it is a greedy, robbing bank like the rest of them at the end of the day).

Sorry for the long-winded post but I really cannot afford to lose this amount of money.

I am currently waiting on the Ombudsman's action. Hopefully they will force NatWest to reverse the decision...

[Deleted User]

I doubt you'll get far with this. If the money has been withdrawn using the correct PIN then you are liable, even if it was someone else who actually withdrew the money.
Remember, you could have given your card to a friend to get money on your behalf so CCTV footage would prove nothing.

emmmski

Hi,

Did you report the theft/fraud to the French Police? I know over here banks often refuse to payout until the victim has reported the matter and been issued with a crime number,.

Higgins91

Thank you for your reply .

I understand that my PIN was used and, yes, I am sure the scenario you have mentioned has been used by fraudsters before to make fraudulent transactions not look fraudulent.

However, I have read that clever fraudsters can easily get the PIN from the card as well as spoof the PIN using special devices when using Chip and PIN machines. I really don't understand how they would have got my PIN .

ILW

How was the card stolen?

dunstonh

Banks are actually quite good at refunding fraudulent transactions. However, they will look at the circumstances of the withdrawal to see if they feel on the balance of probability whether it was you or not.

The problem is that on first attempt, a cash withdrawal was made via cashpoint using the correct PIN. It is highly improbable that a thief would know your pin number. So, how did they get it?

The other issue is that the majority of "ghost" cashpoint withdrawals are made by family members or friends using the card without permission. So, the bank would automatically be doubtful to begin with.

but it is a greedy, robbing bank like the rest of them at the end of the day

No it is not. You are claiming to be a victim of a crime. Problem is your evidence is not strong. You are asking the bank to become the victim and it will willingly do so if it feels the evidence points to that.

However, I have read that clever fraudsters can easily get the PIN from the card as well as spoof the PIN using special devices when using Chip and PIN machines. I really don't understand how they would have got my PIN .

The PIN isnt on the card.

I am currently waiting on the Ombudsman's action. Hopefully they will force NatWest to reverse the decision...

the FOS will look at the evidence and rule on the balance of probability. As it stands, I wouldnt want to call this decision but the bank do have a pretty strong position as it does suggest your PIN was known.

I know none of the above helps your position but it does no harm to understand where the bank and FOS will stand and its pointless going on about bank greed as that gets you nowhere. Fraud costs the banks billions every year.

Higgins91

I am hoping the Police can shed some light on the matter and hopefully get the CCTV footage.

meer53

When did the transaction take place and when did you report your card missing ? Where was the card stolen from ? Was the cash machine local to you ? How much credit was available on the card when the cash was taken ? (It's unusual for a fraudster to take less than the maximum they can.)

These are some of the things the bank will also take into account.

Higgins91

meer53 wrote: »

When did the transaction take place and when did you report your card missing ? Where was the card stolen from ? Was the cash machine local to you ? How much credit was available on the card when the cash was taken ? (It's unusual for a fraudster to take less than the maximum they can.)

These are some of the things the bank will also take into account.

The transactions took place not long before I realised it was missing (a couple of hours because I had not needed to use it again until that point. The cash point used is local to me and nearby to where I was. I only have a low limit of £500 and the thieves, yes, took the maximum possible. They tried to take €500 which was rejected and so they took three amounts (2 x €100 and 1 x €50) which is the maximum the machine would have permitted as my daily limit is around £200 for cash withdrawals. The bank can see that I hardly ever use the card to take money out (I only have a couple of times in an emergency and the money has been paid back immediately to avoid accruing interest) and that that amount would have been the maximum amount that the thieves would have been able to withdraw. In addition, as I have stated in my first post, the bank claim the card was attempted to be used after it was blocked on a gambling site. I have NEVER used a gambling site with a credit card and have very rarely used them altogether.

meer53

How was the card stolen (or lost ?)

Higgins91

Out of my pocket somehow. When I got back home I had every other card apart from the credit card. The other cards were not bank cards - they were my driving licence, student ID, library printing card and front door swipe card. I looked everywhere on my person and could not find it.