Advice on Deposit Issue

GetMeaQuill

Hi,

My partner and I moved out of a rented house nearly two months ago. We were originally renting through a lettings agent, but the landlord then asked us to go private.

After pestering him to release our deposit (which is in a scheme), he finally sent us a letter this weekend saying that he's having trouble getting hold of it as he didn't put it in originally, and also that he wants money for cleaning and repairs.

He wants us to try and get hold of the deposit ourselves (through the old lettings agent), and meanwhile he will send us a bill for the money he wants. Can he do this?

We want to dispute what he wants money for as well, it seems very late for him to tell us that there's a cobweb in the lounge, etc...

Thanks for any help!

Werdnal

Did you have a written check-in inventory when you moved in? Did you read, sign and agree this was a valid and correct description of the property at that time?

Did the LL also do a check-out inventory for comparison when you left?

The LL will need proof to make any deductions, and if he cannot prove "the cobweb" or whatever was not present when you moved in, you cannot be held responsible for its presence when you left. Similarly, any damage, cleaning etc, needs a written "before and after" statement to prove your responsibility.

As for the deposit itself, the LL is always responsible for return of the deposit. Even if the letting agent went bust without returning it, you can sue your LL for the deposit value, and he then has to recover the amount from the agent (or their assets) - agent works for LL not you.

Write a clear and polite letter to the LL advising them that as they have failed to recover and re-protect the deposit, since they left the agent, you have a right to persue them for the non-protection penalty, currently suggested at a fine of 1-3x the deposit amount, plus the original deposit amount returned to you. In reality, this claim is a long-winded and costly process, but may just focus your LL a little on sorting out the deposit return!

In the meantime, I would contact the agent aswell, and ask if they still have details of your deposit - I assume you have the information they would have sent you when they originally protected it. If they can release direct to you, so much the better (LL need not know this, yet!).

sandsni

You should have been given the "prescribed information" relating to your deposit within a month or so of it being protected. If that wasn't done your LL may have bigger problems than a few cobwebs! I'm guessing it wasn't or else you and your partner would know exactly where your money was. Your LL should be made aware that he could be fined for failing to comply (and quite a hefty one too). It is ultimately HIS responsibility to protect the deposit and give you the prescribed information. His dealings with the LA are nothing to do with you and your partner.
He can send you whatever bills he wants, but you do not have to pay him. To claim anything from your deposit he would have to show an actual financial loss due to your tenancy.

GetMeaQuill

Thanks for your help.

We signed a check-in inventory when we moved in. I don't know if the LL has completed a written inventory for check-out, but he's taken pictures of a few things and posted them to us. (albeit two months after we've moved out!)

We have the original deposit details. I think the LL is actually hoping they will release the deposit direct to us, because he wants to send us a separate bill rather than take it out of the deposit. I'm not sure exactly why he'd rather do this, or whether he has the right to.

Werdnal

If the LL washed his hands of the agent, he should have got them to release the deposit then, and re-protected it. As he has not done so (others may be along shortly to confirm this), he has no right to your deposit. He can try to claim the costs he has highlighted from you - would you care to elaborate on what he is claiming for? But he has no direct access to the deposit, and therefore it should be returned to you in full. He can persue you for costs separately if he feels he has a case.

Which scheme is the deposit lodged with? I am familiar with DPS, and with them, the tenant needs to log in and release the deposit amount as well as the landlord/agent, so you should check the scheme's website to see whether that is required. Once you have done "your bit" the agent should be able to release the whole amount to you, usually via bank transfer if you have given the scheme your bank details.

Fire_Fox

The buck stops with the landlord, he is liable for protecting and returning it, it's up to him to deal with the agent HE employed to get his money back. Check with the three schemes, send the landlord a letter before action, two months is ridonculous. He can't charge you anything if the deposit was not lodged, nor at such a late stage.

Template letter and what documents to include are on Shelter. There are several versions use the longest one, it's a rich text so I can't link to it but type "shelter template letter before action deposit" into Google and it's the second listing.

ETA cache version
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kROXpXTlONIJ:www.shelter.org.uk/__data/assets/rtf_file/0010/437887/D._Tenancy_deposits_-_Letter_before_action_after_a_tenancy_has_ended.rtf+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Also useful
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/paying_for_a_home/tenancy_deposits/getting_an_unprotected_tenancy_deposit_back/going_to_court_to_get_a_tenancy_deposit_back

GetMeaQuill

I think when he got rid of the agent, the agent still kept control over the protection of the deposit. I don't know if that's an abnormal situation, but we shall check with the old agent to confirm that is the case.

He has given no indication of how much money he wants, just that he will send us a bill at some point. There are a few photographs he has sent, ranging from 'recycling bin not empty', to 'new carpet needed on stairs and landing'. I'm pretty confident that we definitely won't have to pay for the carpet - the original inventory has 'worn and stained carpet on high traffic areas'. It might be slightly darker I suppose, but we lived there for two years.

We've both rented numerous properties before, but never had any problems, so that's why we're not sure what to do!

GetMeaQuill

Thanks Fire Fox, we shall remind him that it's his responsibility.

RAS

CHECK with all three deposit schems as to whether your is protected; you need post code, name of tenant and value of deposit.

Werdnal

GetMeaQuill wrote: »

I'm pretty confident that we definitely won't have to pay for the carpet - the original inventory has 'worn and stained carpet on high traffic areas'. It might be slightly darker I suppose, but we lived there for two years.

You cannot be asked to pay for the whole cost of a replacement carpet. You may be asked to contribute for a % if the carpet can be proved to be dirty, but fair wear and tear over your 2 years tenancy, plus however old the carpet was, comes into the equation as well. If LL claims full cost of replacing carpet, this is known as "betterment" and you cannot be expected to pay for new for old replacement when carpet may be at end of its useful life anyway.

As for deposit protection, I repeat, the LL is ultimately responsible for the safe protection and/or return of the deposit you paid, less agreed deductions. If the agent still has it, it should be released to you - do you have anything in writing from the LL dating back to when he left the agent? Since then, he shoud have requested the deposit back and re-protected it - if he hasn't, then he is technically in breach of deposit protection, and as I stated in my first reply at post 2, you should write to him now and point out the error of his ways, and suggest that applying for the deposit non-protection penalty is an option for you. However, check all the schemes to see if your deposit is lodged with them.

TBH, I will be surprised if it is, as agents tend to use the "insurance based" schemes, whereby they pay a fee to "insure" the deposit amount, but keep the actual money themselves until such time as tenant leaves. If this is the case, then your deposit may no longer be protected, and as LL is responsible for ensure it is, he is now responsible for returning it, and/or the non-protection penalty is his to bear. I cannot see any agent in the land, being prepared to maintain an insurance based deposit for a LL who has effectively told them to "stick their management up their @r$e" as they will be charged for the insurance policy to cover your deposit and there is nothing in it for them ... If the payments have lapsed, your deposit is no longer protected!

GetMeaQuill

Thanks Werdnal, I didn't know about the insurance-based schemes, that's interesting. I'll check what paperwork we received and check that it's definitely protected before we contact the ll again.