MSE News: Thousands of Santander mortgage holders could get payouts after blunder

me03

Yes I received the early letter code M001 (I think)

me03 wrote: »

copying an earlier message I wrote that has the reasons that they said they would not pay me

After complaining to Santander I got nowhere just a letter saying on the balance of probabilities they do not think we would of changed mortgage (letter dated 15th july 2013).
They state that we opted for a 5 year fixed rate and the capmargin wouldn't have been promoted as a specific benefit of our mortgage.

They then went on to say at the time our monthly payments were affected by the margin increase (they accepted in a fashion that we were affected) we had missed 3 mortgage payment (see previous posts about financial difficulty at this time) and they said we would not have been able to get another mortgage.

They then said the margin increase affected our mortgage when the initial fixed rate expired (3.1.10) and that we were free to look at other products but we chose to stay for another 28mths therefore on the balance of probabilities again we were happy with that rate.

So, after all that letter I left it thinking that Santander were right (silly me!) but I now see that they are paying others for what they are owed. Is it too late for me to reopen my case with them? I understand that it is over the 6 years from 2008 and over the 3 years (just!) from when I first complained (29 May) but our last letter from Santander was on the 15 july - does this mean that I have until then to go to the FOS or have I missed the boat.

I'm very sorry that this post is so long but I am so annoyed at the bank for this. I cant prove it of course but my firm belief is that if I had the option to renegotiate a new deal back in 2008 then maybe we wouldn't have got into the financial difficulty that we did as we would of been able to afford the lower repayments therefore we wouldn't have an extra 2 years on our mortgage!

Thanks for any advice good or bad

Oh and I have found our terms and conditions for 2006 (printed feb2006) if anyone wants to ask anything

health_warning

So has anyone made any progress on their case recently either by way of complaint or on a legal basis?

peterod1

Would there be any point in exploring getting a legal opinion by raising funds through https://www.crowdjustice.co.uk given that some 270,000 were affected? Minimum contributions start at only £1.
Then we could all share the cost and all reap the benefits, if any.
Not sure what legal time limits would apply but if it only came to light early 2013 then 6 years from then? Possibly gives people whose original complaints have time expired with the Ombudsman another opportunity to obtain redress, also people who failed to act at the time or didn't pursue it further back then.
I am sure we could inform people on social media to raise awareness and promote the cause to collect contibutions.
Not saying I am the best person to start this but am willing to make a contribution if it were to go live.

fleetingmind

Finally had my reply from Santander. Be interesting to see what people make of it and if they have a point or not? – Thnaks.

“Firstly, I would like to explain that on 15 December 2008 we increased the Cap Margin from 2.50% to 3.75% due the higher cost to us in raising the money which we lend to our customers. By making this change we were then able to increase the maximum amount of interest charged to customers paying an SVR linked rate. As a result of the increase customers that were affected were eligible to exit their mortgage Early Repayment Charge (ERC) free between 15 December 2008 and 15 March 2009.

At the time of the Cap Margin, your mortgage was on a fixed rate of 4.88%, which was due to end 2 February 2009, and I have enclosed a copy of the mortgage offer to confirm this. As this product is not linked to the SVR, it was therefore not impacted by the increase.

Once your fixed rate ended and reverted to our SVR, the cap margin increase affected your mortgage. From this point your payments were higher than they would have been had we not increased the cap margin. However, you were then free to exit the mortgage at any time without paying an ERC and we wrote to you on 3 February 2009 to conform the SVR payable and the amount of your monthly payment.

In August 2012 we wrote to you again regarding the increase to the SVR and notification of a variation of the Cap Margin contained in your mortgage conditions. Our records confirm that you chose to remain on our SVR until your mortgage was redeemed on 24 November 2014.

Taking all this information into account, I do not believe you have been financially disadvantaged, and I am unable to uphold your complaint. As a result you are not due any redress.”

frazell

Hi Fleetingmind,

And round and round the ferris wheel we go!!

Have you got a copy of your Standard Mortgage Conditions from the time? If you have, you will note that it states that;

1) Santander were supposed to give you 30days notice that the margin was going to be increased. They did not tell anyone this. You therefore SHOULD have know about the increase AT LEAST by 15th nov 2008. They therefore broke their own T&C's.

2) The clause within the terms and conditions state that you are able to move mortgage ERC free over a three month period (as they state in their response to you). The mortgage conditions DO NOT STATE ANYWHERE that this only applies to people on the SVR. My interpretation is that it should have been an option for everyone and therefore we WERE ALL IMMEDIATELY AFFECTED.


Their argument that because you were on a fixed deal and were therefore unaffected is fundamentally flawed by applying their own terms and conditions.

Given the best tracker mortgage deals available at the time were around +0.5% above BOE base rate you would have been mad not to consider swapping products (ERC free), especially as you were on a fix of 4.88%!

If you can get Santander to demonstrate exactly where in your mortgage terms or offer it says that you are exempt from this "3-month ERC free" clause, just because you are on a fixed rate, then I would be happy to review the wording.

Keep on fighting Fleetingmind, have another go with Santander before even considering the FoS.

fleetingmind

Thank you for your reply. I'm not sure I agree when they say that as I was on a fixed rate it wasn't linked to the SVR where the mortgage offer letter clearly states that once the fixed rate ends you go onto the SVR.

Are they basically saying that as they wrote to me twice to advise me that I was going onto their SVR and that as they mentioned the rate and I didn't leave I have no claim.

I'm normally quite good with this kind of stuff but my heads a tad hazy!

i'll try to see if i have the t&c in the loft!

frazell

Fleetingmind you are right to be confused. This is what they do to grind you down.

It doesn't really matter if they wrote to you at the point your mortgage went SVR because at that point you had missed the boat. You could have moved mortgage in Nov 2008 to a far lower (tracker) rate which would have fallen with the BOE rate.

The two main points are that they broke the T&C's by not telling you in Nov 2008 that your SVR was going to increase at the end of your term, and that by not telling you that you were denied the right to review your options at the time, least of all you had 3months ERC free to move.

If you cannot find your T&C's (or SMC's as Santander call them) then you can either request for another copy (politely) or do it via a SAR and pay £10 to receive them.

fleetingmind

frazell wrote: »

Fleetingmind you are right to be confused. This is what they do to grind you down.

It doesn't really matter if they wrote to you at the point your mortgage went SVR because at that point you had missed the boat. You could have moved mortgage in Nov 2008 to a far lower (tracker) rate which would have fallen with the BOE rate.

The two main points are that they broke the T&C's by not telling you in Nov 2008 that your SVR was going to increase at the end of your term, and that by not telling you that you were denied the right to review your options at the time, least of all you had 3months ERC free to move.

If you cannot find your T&C's (or SMC's as Santander call them) then you can either request for another copy (politely) or do it via a SAR and pay £10 to receive them.

Thanks again for your input. I've left message for them to send me the T&C's from my 2006 Abbey mortgage.

I'll reply to them first before I go to the FOS.

So am I right that even if a fixed rate ends and you move to the lenders SVR you would still have to pay a ERC charge on any mortgage if you wanted to go to another lender?

frazell

Fleetingmind, no problem.

You want to keep your complaint with Santander for as long as possible before going to the FoS, if you take it to the FoS you will find a complete sea change in how your complaint progresses.

What you need to do, once you have your T&C's is to ask a very pointed question on where in the T&C's it states that you were not subject to the 3month ERC free window. It needs to be directly worded so they have to reply without deviation.

With respect to your question on the ERC, no, once you revert to the SVR then there is usually no ERC to pay. You would be free to move to another lender without penalty, subject to your usual mortgage exit fee.

fleetingmind

frazell wrote: »

Fleetingmind, no problem.

You want to keep your complaint with Santander for as long as possible before going to the FoS, if you take it to the FoS you will find a complete sea change in how your complaint progresses.

What you need to do, once you have your T&C's is to ask a very pointed question on where in the T&C's it states that you were not subject to the 3month ERC free window. It needs to be directly worded so they have to reply without deviation.

With respect to your question on the ERC, no, once you revert to the SVR then there is usually no ERC to pay. You would be free to move to another lender without penalty, subject to your usual mortgage exit fee.

But isn't that their argument. That my fixed rate wasn't subject to SVR in 2008 and then when my fixed ended in Feb/Mar 2009 I could have gone to another lender with no ERC to pay. The new rate was stated in their letter.

The Cap Margin increase would not have affected my fixed rate in 2008 and i couldn't have got out of it fee free.