What to do if the ticket machine is broken

Guys_Dad

Asked the BPA for their guidance on what one should do if the ticket machines are out of action in a Pay & Display and there is no other method of payment available.

Got this reply:-

Thank you for your e-mail.
Please be advised that if pay and display machines are not working then we would advise you do not park there.

If you are unable to obtain a ticket and you park there, it is possible you may receive a parking charge notice.

Kind regards,

AOS Investigations Team

So now you all know! Also suggests that POPLA might not accept non-working machines as an excuse either, if that is the BPA's view.

trisontana

What a stupid answer, but one that is typical of the BPA. So you go to a supermarket and the P&D machine is not working and you leave. I'm sure the supermarket would appreciate all that loss of business.

fisherjim

What an utter bunch of brain dead gormless idiots!
I would imagine any store owners employing PPC's under these misguided rulings would be overjoyed to see their stores empty!

trisontana

Compare and contrast that to the situation in a council car-park. If the machine is not working, just leave a note on your windscreen and you won't get booked. This has happened to me a couple of times. Another time the parking attendant was on site and reassured everybody that you could park there for free, and nothing would happen.

jkdd77

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Asked the BPA for their guidance on what one should do if the ticket machines are out of action in a Pay & Display and there is no other method of payment available.

Got this reply:-

Thank you for your e-mail.
Please be advised that if pay and display machines are not working then we would advise you do not park there.

If you are unable to obtain a ticket and you park there, it is possible you may receive a parking charge notice.

Kind regards,

AOS Investigations Team

So now you all know! Also suggests that POPLA might not accept non-working machines as an excuse either, if that is the BPA's view.

I don't have a link immediately to hand, but I understand that POPLA have already rejected an appeal made on this ground, which is not surprising as POPLA is not at all independent, and is effectively controlled by the BPA.

nigelbb

POPLA is not amenable to common sense just what is laid down in the BPA CoP & very much as a secondary consideration what is the law of the land. They will for example not accept an argument that a PPC charge is an unlawful penalty for breach of contract. A ruling that if there is no way of paying then you shouldn't park is quite in line with their skewed logic.

Guys_Dad

nigelbb wrote: »

POPLA is not amenable to common sense just what is laid down in the BPA CoP & very much as a secondary consideration what is the law of the land. They will for example not accept an argument that a PPC charge is an unlawful penalty for breach of contract. A ruling that if there is no way of paying then you shouldn't park is quite in line with their skewed logic.

I agree, Nigel. But we are beginning to see what arguments they are open to persuasion on.

The one I am really waiting to read is what happens if a PPC doesn't keep to the POFA timescales and then what POPLA chooses to do.

nigelbb

Guys_Dad wrote: »

I agree, Nigel. But we are beginning to see what arguments they are open to persuasion on.

The one I am really waiting to read is what happens if a PPC doesn't keep to the POFA timescales and then what POPLA chooses to do.

Even more interesting are what happens if a PPC doesn't keep to the BPA CoP & POPLA timescale of 35 days after receiving the first appeal/challenge and then what POPLA chooses to do.

Half_way

If the advice is do not use the car park, and this happens to a supermarket car park, then you may be able to be a helpful citizen: get some barrier tape and close off the car park , and using a market pen and some board/card ( or at a push paper )

Car park Closed - ticket machine out of order do not park here, this is British Parking Asociation Advice, of which ppc name who manage this site are a member. If you park here you may be issued with a parking charge notice.

Guys_Dad

Just had an updated reply.

Further to our previous e-mail in regards to your query about broken pay and display machines. I have spoken to one of my managers who has advised the following.

Clearly “putting the customer at the heart of your thinking” would suggest that any parking systems and equipment deployed to control entry, exit and payment for parking should be in operation and motorists provided with the means to comply with any requirements for payment. To undertake enforcement action of any kind when this was not the case would be unfair. It is the adjudication services, both statutory and POPLA that would deal with this unfairness should it arise. Guidance of this kind is not something the BPA currently publishes since it is common sense to some extent and the appeals mechanism is in place.

In practice when payment devices are malfunctioning or not available common sense prevails in most cases and especially when the motorist draws attention to the fact. Most parking operators, public and private sector have routines in place to regularly inspect and maintain equipment to ensure that it is functioning correctly and most equipment manufactured in recent years can be monitored remotely over the internet. It is also worth remembering that in most cases, when an enforcement agent enters say a pay and display car park, the first thing they do is to check the equipment before undertaking enforcement action. This is often evidenced by then physically purchasing a ticket to prove it functions correctly; this also provides the car park operator with times, proof that the enforcement agent was present in the car park. There are a number of other similar or related working practices.

However, operators can have motorists who have received a parking charge notice claim the machine was broken to avoid having to pay to park and paying the parking charge notice. Therefore if you come across a broken machine, we would suggest you look for another machine within the car park and contact the number on the machine to let the operator know.

We hope this clarifies the position further.

Stroma

So they want you to call a premium rate number to tell the parking company that their machine is not working. I wouldn't consider phoning anyone to say the machine is out of order, that is actually their problem and not yours.

There are a couple of supermarkets near me that has pay machines that refund money back in store, I've yet to pay anything for parking, but I heard the other day that someone got an invoice for not paying in the car park they were complaining at the desk, I handed her pepipoo flyer and asked how she managed to get a ticket when I've been trying for months