2 Premier Park PCN's on Private Residential parking...

fatmcgav

Afternoon all...

Firstly, apologies if this has been covered to death before, however I thought it safest for me to ask anyway...

Recently the management company of our flats appointed Premier Park Ltd to oversee our residential parking, due to various issues with parking in unmarked bays, incorrect bays etc...

I've recently twice fallen fowl of the parking company for parking in a space allocated to an empty property.
The 1st time was at 06:00 on Saturday 2nd March, and I'd parked there simply because there was no-where else for me to park - 2 cars in our flat for 1 allocated space...
The 2nd time was on the Thurs 11th April at 05:56, and I'd parked in the same space as previously ticketed. However this time it was due to a vehicle over-hanging our marked bay, which was also ticketed on the morning.

For the 1st ticket, I've since received a 'Formal Demand' of payment, as I've passed outside the 28 day term.

For the 2nd ticket, I did try to notify the parking company of said vehicles infringement and the fact that I parked in another bay, however their phone service is diabolical, never anyone picking up, and half the time don't even get a voicemail box where I can leave a message...

Am I right in believing that the best course of action with both tickets is to simply ignore any correspondence relating to said tickets?
Or should I try and appeal the 2nd ticket based on the above mitigating factors?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

Regards
Gavin

nigelbb

The advice nowadays is not to ignore but to appeal then when that is rejected to take the case to the "independent" appeals body POPLA where you are all but certain to win with a properly prepared defence.

It's likely that in your case your lease trumps any PPC bollox about parking in allocated bays or displaying a permit.

Half_way

if it's private residents parking check your lease, there's a slight twist on the advice.

fatmcgav

Half_way wrote: »

if it's private residents parking check your lease, there's a slight twist on the advice.

I guess that gets even more complicated when I'm a tenant, not the owner of said property?

Coupon-mad

fatmcgav wrote: »

I guess that gets even more complicated when I'm a tenant, not the owner of said property?

A little - but it's still very appealable at POPLA!

Read this thread, written on pepipoo by the registered keeper who is the mother of a driver who parked in an allocated bay, relying upon permission from a friend who is 'only' the tenant! I post as SchoolRunMum over there and you'll see that on page 2, the poster has now submitted a strong POPLA appeal - having already had a first appeal rejected by the scammers of course:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=78026

...waiting for the POPLA decision in due course but it looks good to me.

Yours is simpler than that (yet not an allocated bay for your own flat which just means you can't use that point of appeal). You could certainly appeal both tickets as there are LOADS of issues to consider and even the first one is surely only at 'Notice to Keeper' stage?

The keeper can appeal to POPLA if this is the first letter sent to the keeper - so does the Notice say so? Is it compliant?

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

...are the signs compliant, plentiful, clear, lit, worded fairly (NOT!) and in large lettering, not placed too high (doubt they are perfect!!) and has the PPC adhered to all the requirements and deadlines and wording needed in all signs and Notices?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4535287

I would appeal both the fake PCNs, once you've done some digging and found all the breaches and issues you can throw in - and also you can quote the terms of your tenancy (and your landlord's lease). Check whether either (tenancy or lease, if your landlord will let you see it) allows - or at least doesn't preclude - a resident parking two cars on site and use other bays. Does the tenancy or lease have words to the effect that the resident is entitled to 'peaceful enjoyment' of their property? Quite possibly there are rights and easements there in yours and the owner's documentation that take legal priority - and maybe no mention of any 'parking scheme' even being part of the contract.

I know it means doing a bit of research but a won POPLA decision or two, in your favour, costs the PPC £27 a pop plus their lost admin and p&p and wasted time over the fake PCNs. So it's a way to fight back and puts you on the front foot if they ever issue any more fake PCNs to you (as very probably they will). And it would then give your landlord and other owners some leverage to complain to the managing agent that this firm are just harassing residents and don't comply with their own industry Code, as you can prove by showing that they have failed at independent appeals stage. Best to try to get a PPC kicked out if other residents and owners feel the same as you - in most cases there's zero need for ScammersRUs on site in a block of flats car park anyway, zero justification, and it can put off potential buyers/tenants as well.

Half_way

fatmcgav wrote: »

I guess that gets even more complicated when I'm a tenant, not the owner of said property?

Now ive got asccess to a real keyboard ( instead of an 'orrible touch screen phone) i can add a bit more.

As for making it more complicated, not at all, just a slight twist in the proceedings usualy greatly in your favour, and detrimental to the parking company.

note this is in relation to your allocated space

The property will have a lease agreement/freehold agreement ( or something like that) If you rent the property form a landlord, you may be able to find some answers in the rental agreement.
what you are looking for is any mention of parking space(s) in the rental agrrement and/or the lease agreement.
If possible you should also ask your landlord for a copy of the lease agreement, as your having some trouble with the management company with regards to aprking, and you need to check the lease/freehold agreement to see what it says.

Why all this??
Well in most cases ( infact virtualy all) the lease/freehold agreement says it includes a parking space/parking area/marked space, or it may not mention anything abbout parking restrictions/permits/controls. also if the property includes its own private driveway then you have the right to park on it, regardless of what any management company or two bit parking company that they employ says.
in short the lease trumps anything added by a third party.

If all the above clicks in, then you do not need permission to park where you are entitled to, as the person who can give permision to park/use that space is yourslef so why are you bothering to display a permit??

Again check everything through, before you decide to ditch the permit.

If all is clear, then dont bother with the permit, and each and every time you get a stuicky envelope attached to your vehicle, keep a record of it, plus a log of how long you spend dealing with it, and any other costs involved ( such as cleaning materials etc etc)

and each time you get a threat - o - gram in the post reply via e-mail telling them that you will not pay their fee, as its your own space, if they ( the parking company ) doesnt agree with this then you want to take this to popla.
you should be able to get one of these each time the parking bod comes past - maybe at least one a day/7 a week 30 a month ( you get the picture)
Appeal each and every one individualy to popla
Also tell the parking company and the management company that they are trespassing in your space, and you shall not be displaying any permit to park on your space, if they persist in doing this you may take action against them for trespass.
you will not be the first to do this, another parking company was doing the same thing ( issuing parking charge notices to people parking in their own alocated spaces) and they were hauled over the coals in a court.


As for the space that wasnt yours, again popla appeal it.