storage heaters/electric central heating or gas?

amtrakuk

mutualcyclops wrote: »

Hi all,

I've literally just moved into a house, 2 bed, with an unconventional heating system. It has a wood burning stove with a back boiler, that only runs 2/3 rads and the hot water (with optional immersion heater), the other sources of heating in the other rooms are oil filled panel rads (approx 600x600mm) 5 in total.

My actually question is, what do you think is the best supplier/tariff to go on? I know its basic but I've never moved out before and am totally green. I ve read the whole thread, but I like to see things in black and white. There are three of us well nearly (baby due in Nov) I'm at work 9-5 but she will be at home all day. I also like my electrical stuff i.e PC, PS3 and TV. The house is well insulated.

I thank you in advance.

Hey ho...

Im assuming you don't have Gas to the property (All electric). Do you have eceonomy 7 and storage heaters. Reason I ask is it seems to be the norm to have storage heaters if using electricity for heating.

I'm all (non economy 7) electric (gas removed 3 years ago) and often look online for the best deals. I do use price comparison websites to get a rough idea. If using all electricity in your house look at the Tier 2 rate. Tier 1 rate will be used up in no time at all.

I was with Eon but EDF gave me a better deal on the T2 rate so I'm now with them.

Very important thing to do! When you move to a new supplier ask for you're Direct Debit to be set to somewhere in the region of £80 or your combined energy bill for G&E now. Even though you wont use anywhere near that in the spring/summer/autumn, you want to build yourself up a nice credit for when the electric gets hit in winter.

People don't generally do this which is why people shudder when their winter bill comes in and find their Direct Debit has been increased from £30 a month to £150 a month.

mutualcyclops

Thanks amtrakuk, I don't have any storage heaters and no gas at all. Thanks a lot, I'll remember the tier 2 thing, cos i gather if you go over the tier 1 allowance it costs you a lot. Was the £80 a monthly figure or a quarterly one?

To theboy1263, one of the sister companies of the company I work for has an offer on electric heaters.

chatsworth heating direct co uk / offers

hopefully you can work that out, cos as a new user I can't post links

Regards to all,

Cardew

theboy1263 wrote: »

hi have read your messages regarding electric heaters, ive converted my garage into a games room for my children, i asked my mains gas supplier about extending supply to the games room for a mini bolier but my meter/regulator is not up to it and the said im looking a t £1000's to upgrade it. so it looks like im stuck with electric heaters, i dont need the rooms heated constantly we can heat the room just befor/whilst the children use it. can you advise me on the type of electric heaters i should use, [the games room is very well insulated]there ar so many different types of heater i need the most energy efficient and cost effective ones i can find, many thanks paul

As you sent me a PM, just to endorse the reply from amtrakuk above.

The really important point to note is that whatever form of electrical heating you get, the heat produced will cost exactly the same!

The choice is between rapid heating with no residual heat(e.g fan heater) or slower heat output with some residual heat(e.g. oil filled radiator)

I suggest a £30 fan heater would suffice for the use you require.

SamanthaEllaRose

What would you recommend for a 2 bedroom flat without gas for heating. The existing heating is underfloor (electric) which has proved to be expensive. The flat is used by two people who are at work during the day but the flat becomes very cold if no heating on.
Has anyone any experience of intelligent storage heater?

http://www.cnmonline.co.uk/Intellige...-pr-34641.html

or would it be better to have say oil heater with a thermostat that is just used when they are in the flat.

Having read a few post I am now wondering if an electric wet systems would be best.
Any advice most welcome.

Cardew

SamanthaEllaRose wrote: »

What would you recommend for a 2 bedroom flat without gas for heating. The existing heating is underfloor (electric) which has proved to be expensive. The flat is used by two people who are at work during the day but the flat becomes very cold if no heating on.
Has anyone any experience of intelligent storage heater?

http://www.cnmonline.co.uk/Intellige...-pr-34641.html

or would it be better to have say oil heater with a thermostat that is just used when they are in the flat.

Having read a few post I am now wondering if an electric wet systems would be best.
Any advice most welcome.

It has been repeated many times on this thread that all forms of electrical heater(other than heat pumps) give out exactly the same amount of heat for the electricity consumed.

Storage heaters only advantage is that they can store heat obtained at a cheap rate provided you have an Economy 7(or E10) tariff.

The disadvantage of storage heaters, again discussed often, is they 'leak' heat during the day and often have no heat left in the evening. Also if you have an E7 tariff you pay a lot more for your daytime electricity and the extra costs can cancel out the nightime savings.

Underfloor heating uses low levels of heat so is best when on for a long period, not ideal for a working couple out all day.

Any form of heater that gives 'instant' heat such as a fan heater will probably be the best bet. These can be set to come on with a timer, and have thermostat. You can buy these for £30 or so.

However all forms of electrical heating will be expensive to run.

melanie_king

I am really annoyed at Cardew, I bought this German system (not from Electrorad) for my mother and it is so much better than her former night storage system. If Cardew was correct then we could all plug in a 2kw steam iron to keep warm as an iron is just a heater.
The real reason Cardew doesn't know what he's talking about is that the economy7 night storage heaters are not contollable. If you need heat at night but not during the day, you still need to PAY for the daytime heat as the electronic damping systems they use are completely USELESS. Also they've pretty much used up all their stored heat hours before they come on again so you need back up heating. My mother's bedroom was hot all day and freezing cold by 9pm. What a waste of money.
So Cardew, if storing energy is a waste of time, why are there so many people with economy7 night storage heaters? I remember economy7 heaters used to be equipped with mechanical dampers, operated by a handle on the side, which kept the heat inside the bricks during the day, but the plate was lined with asbestos, so when they were banned, the manufacturers had to come up with this output dial which, as I've said, just doesn't work.
And another thing. I've recently discovered that if you buy economy7 heaters, your daytime electric tarrif goes through the roof.
Anyway, glad to get that off my chest!!

mech_2

melanie_king wrote: »

I am really annoyed at Cardew, I bought this German system (not from Electrorad) for my mother and it is so much better than her former night storage system. If Cardew was correct then we could all plug in a 2kw steam iron to keep warm as an iron is just a heater.

You probably could if you could run enough of them at once and it would cost just the same as any other direct electrical heating for a given rise in room temperature. Irons are probably not very good at transfering their heat to the room though as that's not what they're designed for. Probably better to buy fan heaters or panel heaters or something.

The real reason Cardew doesn't know what he's talking about is that the economy7 night storage heaters are not contollable. If you need heat at night but not during the day, you still need to PAY for the daytime heat as the electronic damping systems they use are completely USELESS.

"Electronic damping systems"? What do you mean? If storage heaters don't have the oomph to both heat at night and store up heat for the following day, it would seem to be sensible to invest in panel heaters for the night and let the storage heaters do nothing more than charge themselves with heat until the daytime.

Also they've pretty much used up all their stored heat hours before they come on again so you need back up heating. My mother's bedroom was hot all day and freezing cold by 9pm. What a waste of money.
So Cardew, if storing energy is a waste of time, why are there so many people with economy7 night storage heaters?

I think it's a case of: "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

I remember economy7 heaters used to be equipped with mechanical dampers, operated by a handle on the side, which kept the heat inside the bricks during the day, but the plate was lined with asbestos, so when they were banned, the manufacturers had to come up with this output dial which, as I've said, just doesn't work.

As far as I know the principle by which storage heaters work has not changed. Asbestos is just a material, it's not vital to the design.

And another thing. I've recently discovered that if you buy economy7 heaters, your daytime electric tarrif goes through the roof.

I think Cardew did mention that.

Cardew

melanie_king wrote: »

I am really annoyed at Cardew, I bought this German system (not from Electrorad) for my mother and it is so much better than her former night storage system. If Cardew was correct then we could all plug in a 2kw steam iron to keep warm as an iron is just a heater.
The real reason Cardew doesn't know what he's talking about is that the economy7 night storage heaters are not contollable. If you need heat at night but not during the day, you still need to PAY for the daytime heat as the electronic damping systems they use are completely USELESS. Also they've pretty much used up all their stored heat hours before they come on again so you need back up heating. My mother's bedroom was hot all day and freezing cold by 9pm. What a waste of money.
So Cardew, if storing energy is a waste of time, why are there so many people with economy7 night storage heaters? I remember economy7 heaters used to be equipped with mechanical dampers, operated by a handle on the side, which kept the heat inside the bricks during the day, but the plate was lined with asbestos, so when they were banned, the manufacturers had to come up with this output dial which, as I've said, just doesn't work.
And another thing. I've recently discovered that if you buy economy7 heaters, your daytime electric tarrif goes through the roof.
Anyway, glad to get that off my chest!!

For those of you who might be intrigued by this post, there is a little history!
Melanie bought her mother WIBO 2 electric radiators that cost £3,500 and didn't tke kindly to being told(by several people) that it wasn't a good money saving idea.

She had a little 'rant at me earlier in the year for daring to question the wisdom of her choice!! This was my reply.

Melanie,
I am sorry you were disturbed.

The purpose of posting is not to upset you, but to warn other money savers about these vastly overpriced systems.

I haven't made any assumptions - I have simply stated facts.

Your analogy is quite true - a 1kW iron would not heat a room efficiently because it is not designed to heat rooms. In fact it could never use 1kW of power for more than a couple of minutes.

However let us take a Wibo heater. It is simply a radiator - it radiates heat.

So does a £30 oil filled radiator.

It is absolutely undeniable that a, say, 2 kW Wibo heater produces EXACTLY the same heat for the money(running costs) as a 2kW £30 oil filled radiator.

A ribbed radiator will have a greater area to dissipate the heat - it is the same as having a bigger radiator. It will not give any advantages in cost. If you dissipate heat faster, you will run out of heat faster, or you will need to supply more heat than a smaller radiator.

If you want to produce heat faster and distribute it better than any radiator, get a £30 fan heater, however that has no residual heat.

There is a lot of mystic about heating derived from electricity. All electrical heating is 100% efficient at producing heat. Wibo or Granny's 1/2/3 bar fire.

If you produce a set amount of heat from, say, 1kWh it is the method of distributing the heat that can vary.

There are plenty of cheap heaters that will distribute heat at quicker rate than a Wibo, slower than a Wibo, or at the same rate as a Wibo.

I am surprised that you can come on a Money Saving Website and defend spending £3,500 on 2 radiators on the grounds that 'your Mum is delighted with them'.

I am even more surprised that you continue to imply that they produce more heat for the money than a £30 heater.

The quote below I have posted many times - including in the post above Melanie's latest.

Storage heaters only advantage is that they can store heat obtained at a cheap rate provided you have an Economy 7(or E10) tariff.

The disadvantage of storage heaters, again discussed often, is they 'leak' heat during the day and often have no heat left in the evening. Also if you have an E7 tariff you pay a lot more for your daytime electricity and the extra costs can cancel out the nightime savings.

However if anyone thinks that it is a good idea to spend £3,500 on two radiators that give out exactly the same heat, for the same cost, as £30 radiators, then I am sure Melanie can give you details of her WIBO contact

You might wish to read this link first they are less gentle than I:

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090802023653AAc3lg9

<H1 class=subject>Wibo heaters are a complete rip off!?

£2000 for a plug-in electric heater!
Don't believe the salesmen. I know someone who invested in one of these ugly heaters and they are no more than a water filled plug-in heater at 10x the cost of a decent and well-proven oil-filled heater.
My question: how can these ruthless salesmen get away with this miss-selling?

Thanks for the mis-selling link, that'll help my friend who was daft enough to invest in one of these useless things! Also, that link is for the UK not Germany which is even better.
Although people are daft to pay £2000 for a plug-in heater it really annoys me that even in this age of knowledge, & consumer rights, companies can still prey on the not-so-bright and the elderly.

Spread the word about these rip-off heaters before an elderly friend of yours gets caught out by the clever sales patter.

Sadly the Western World, (I am in the UK) is awash with access to money, in the hands of suckers who are at a wits end to spend it.

Its a haven for any salesman with a great skill in selling and a crap product to sell. Open season on dummies, so do not blame the salesmen for the gullibility of these easy targets.

Does your friend believe any plug in heater is worth £2000. The salesman probably gets them from China at a tenner.

</H1>Also get the details of the Advertising Standards Authority against the company

the way they are being sold is a complete rip-off and here's the proof

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/non_broadcast/Adjudication+Details.htm?Adjudication_id=42322

crispy123

I have been reading this thread with great interest.

My problem - I do not have gas. I have one working Night Storage Heater, a Dimplex and panel heaters in bedrooms. I have a 2 bed bungalow.

I have been debating whether to replace the NS heater and add one or two more (there used to be 3 but 2 were removed)

When searching for ASHP I have found Air con units and discovered that they can both cool or heat and also that there are multi/split units that can heat/cool several rooms. My question is "Would this work as a heating system? and also as a bonus for those sweltering summers as a cooling system? and how economical/expensive would it be to run?

Cardew

Welcome to the forum.

Your best bet is to read the various threads on Air Source Heat Pumps(ASHP) on this forum.

Without doubt an ASHP has the cheapest running costs of any heating system if you don't have gas(and possibly even cheaper than gas). You can work on getting heat at around one third of the price of normal electrical heating.