listed house - window worries

mattk1234

Hi I am in the process of buying a grade II listed house. It's in great condition but have notice myself one potential major problem.

There are 3 windows that have double glazing in. They are still wooden framed and potentially would go unnoticed in all honesty as they look the part - you would have to look very closely/ enter the property/ garden to see.

I did a quick check of planning applications in my local councils portal and couldn't find any record of this work being applied for.

I've advised my solicitor to check but want to be ready for the inevitable.

It was listed for the 1st time in the early 80's so i don't think they could have been put in before.

I could contact my local planning office and speak to conservation but don't want to stir things up just in case it causes me more issues down the line.

Is there any way we can make vendors get some sort of indemnity?
Would you use it to shoe horn the price down?
Would you just get planning involved and see what is said.

I am wary about just living with it as i understand its a criminal offence. We will also apply to planning and listed consent to replace the door which would potentially allow them to spot other problems.

We really like the house and don't want to walk away. we are coming into this aware of what a listed building means.

any advice or experience appreciated

Matt

SG27

Ask the vendors about it. Ask when the windows were installed and whether listed building consent was granted. Don't involve the council just yet as it would invalidate any potential future indemnity policy!

Bluebonnie

SG27 wrote: »

Ask the vendors about it. Ask when the windows were installed and whether listed building consent was granted. Don't involve the council just yet as it would invalidate any potential future indemnity policy!

Many planning authorities put the applications for listed building consent in with other planning applications, and you may well be able to find this application online. They go back six or seven years I think..
Have you any idea how long ago these windows were done?

Also, your solicitor should be asking about a Fensa certificate. This is a warranty that the work was carri ed out properly.

A listed building should be properly maintained, and these days that means that windows, if replaced, will have double glazed panes. Certainly, for a building in a conservation area, the Fensa cert is all that's required, planning app not needed.

leveller2911

Bluebonnie wrote: »

A listed building should be properly maintained, and these days that means that windows, if replaced, will have double glazed panes. Certainly, for a building in a conservation area, the Fensa cert is all that's required, planning app not needed.

If its Grade II Listed each Conservation officer will have their own thoughts on double glazing.Some allow it and others won't.If its Listed and in a Conservation area then many won't entertain DG units.
FENSA is just a self regulating scheme and shouldn't be relied upon in a Consevation area or Listed Buildings. Windows can be replaced via Listed building consent and if they want single glazing then this must be fitted and the Conservation officers decision takes priority over Building control, so building control cannot insist on double glazing to meet current Building regs Part L....

If the current windows were replaced without Listed Building consent then any buyer will not be held responsible but the previous owner could. Conservation officers may well like to see new windows fitted that are "in keeping" with the building but cannot insist on the new buyer installing them, its up to the buyer (new owner) to put in for LBC to change them when they want to.

Owning a Grade II Listed building can be very frustrating and a money pit so buyer beware..

Yorkie1

leveller2911 wrote: »

If the current windows were replaced without Listed Building consent then any buyer will not be held responsible but the previous owner could. Conservation officers may well like to see new windows fitted that are "in keeping" with the building but cannot insist on the new buyer installing them, its up to the buyer (new owner) to put in for LBC to change them when they want to.

Are you sure that existing owners can't have enforcement action taken against them for breaches of listed building and/or conservation area consent, where the changes had been made by previous owners?

I'm sure I've seen threads on here where this has happened.

leveller2911

Yorkie1 wrote: »

Are you sure that existing owners can't have enforcement action taken against them for breaches of listed building and/or conservation area consent, where the changes had been made by previous owners?

I'm sure I've seen threads on here where this has happened.

The existing owner can be, even inprisoned but the OP is possibly buying a Listed Building so it would be the current owner who will be in trouble as it seems they may have replaced the original windows with double glazed ones.If there was no Listed building consent then the current owners could be in trouble...

The key point is who made the changes without LBC.I should have made it clearer in my previous post...

Ivana_Tinkle

If the work is unauthorised, only the person who did the work can be prosecuted, BUT the current owner can be made to put everything back how it was (and if they don't comply, they could be prosecuted for that). More details here: http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/professional/advice/hpg/uwandhc/offences/

mattk1234

Thanks for the replies everybody. Has made me feel a bit better. The owner is dead.. well relatives selling house so not sure how that stands. reassuring that some councils positive about DG. Its not in a conservation area just 17th century so auto listing.

Cheers all

SG27

Another option would be to email the local planning conservation officer and ask about double glazing in a listed building you thinking of buying. Just don't give the address. I did this for a house I was considering a couple of years ago. The question was actually about the fireplace but I got an answer. Although it did take about 2/3 weeks!

Yorkie1

Ivana_Tinkle wrote: »

If the work is unauthorised, only the person who did the work can be prosecuted, BUT the current owner can be made to put everything back how it was (and if they don't comply, they could be prosecuted for that). More details here: http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/professional/advice/hpg/uwandhc/offences/

Thanks - I think this is what I meant but couldn't articulate.