bent over goldfish

lobbyludd

discovered yesterday.

He is ds (10)'s pet and allowed on the strict instructions that he look after him (fish was a fair-win that I was presented with by a grinning child in a tupperware box - I know fish are hard to look after and I have no experience so wouldn't have chosen to, I was in half a mind to send it back with the idiot who let him win it, but didn't expect it to live out the week).

we've had him 7 months, he's fed sparingly (every other day, after 5mins anything left ist aken out) but I suspect his water hasn't been part changed in over a month. he's on his own in a 50litre tank, filtration pump, no live plants.

when discovered he could eat, move his fins and lollop around a bit but is at the bottom bent over. Last night I changed 50% of the water, rinsed the gravel through thoroughly, and added 4tsp of rock salt to try and perk him up.

I fully expected the stress of my tinkering to have killed him overnight but he's soldiering on, in the same state, no better no worse.

what do I do now? we've run out of aquasafe have no fish tonics etc, and can't get to the pet shop until monday. If I need to change some more of the water, how long should I let it stand to get rid of the chlorine - would overnight do?

help!

pawsies

do you mean upside down? research swim bladder in goldfish. it seems to be relatively common nowadays.

Froglet

The fact you have not done a water change for a month will no doubt have caused a massive ammonia spike which will be poisoning him.How do you clean the filter? If you have been rinsing it out under the tap you will have washed away all the beneficial bacteria that copes with fish waste.

The tank is I'm afraid way too small.Sadly none of this is your fault you did not choose to have the poor creature and it angers us fishkeepers that living creatures like this can be given as prizes with no thought for their welfare.

Leaving water to stand overnight will not clear away the chlorine and chloramine.Whether you will do more damage by doing another water change with all the chlorine it contains ,or leaving things till Monday,i wouldn't like to say.I fear the damge is done already.Fish from fairs are already weak from the conditions they are kept in;and sadly you and the fish are now paying that price.

I would though,run some water off tonight and if you have any means of aerating it it would help.Then do another change tomorrow.Then a massive change when you get some aqua safe to dechlorinate the water.

Any further questions,try asking here,they are a great bunch of experienced people who care deeply for fish(as i do).

http://forum.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/

trudij

Im confused - a 50l tank isnt big enough for one fish?? Im worried about my lot now!!!

I had a fair fish for years - goodness knows how he managed to last, we were in a similar situation to you OP, no idea and just handed a bag (well my brother was!) having not expected to win at all !!!! Really hope your fish recovers.

Froglet

Yes a lot of people think goldfish don't need a big tank,or that they "grow to the size of the tank".For a start,you would not stunt any other living creature by keeping it in something too small,at least most people wouldn't.But the myth about goldfish still does the rounds.

What actually happens is that the skeleton is stunted but not the internal organs which means they start to push against the external frame and cause a lot of suffering.

Take a read here which shows very well the differnce between fisk kept in ultimate conditions and one that is stunted.

http://forum.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/showthread.php?t=74323

Single tail goldfish should only ever be kept long term in a pond where they can enjoy proper space.Goldfish are very messy creatures and good filtration is needed no matter what the sixe of the tank.The more water you have for them to swim and mess in,the more diluted their waste is,causing less problems if the filter cannot cope,or good maintenance isn't carried out.

Ammonia and nitrite burns the skin and gills which is not pleasant.I have seen the results of a fish kept in too small a bowl,with no filtration for a long time.It was absolutely pitiful,it's body was twisted,it was skinny,it's fins had shrunk,it's body had burn marks on and it could hardly swim.It made me weep,but there was nothing i could do as it was to do with my job.

trudij

Oh gosh - I never realised that (will go and have a good look at the fish forums youve put up) I always thought that the tank I have (its about 35-40l) would be plenty big enough for one goldfish (not that Ive got any goldfish other than in my pond,they only come in if they are ill and thats into a temporary holiday home!!) - admittedly thats chiefly cos my friend who gave me the tank had two goldfish in it perfectly happily (well - outwardly they seemed it!) for years, and when I went to the shop to get some fish for me after my Siamese Fighter died they said it was perfectly fine for what I bought (three dwarf cherry, three rainbow dwarf fish and a bottom feeder - one of the rainbows has since died, but all the others seem really healthy.... I wouldnt ever stock a tank really densely like they do in fish shops, but even so I relied on them to tell me that I wasnt causing any sort of welfare issues....

Now I feel really guilty !!! (and am going to start another sealed pot to save up for a bigger tank for them)

That fish you found sounds like he would have been in agony - poor poor thing.

Thankyou. from me and the fish !!

lobbyludd

thanks everyone,
should have said I used the last of the aquasafe on the water change and rinsing through the gravel so he shouldn't have any chlorine in there right now.

I've never washed the filter, I've always put a new one in when it got dirty, didn't realise you could wash them.

poor thing, he's exactly the same, not upside down, but at the bottom in a "L" shape, although not as extreme as he was when found. he can swim but he's clearly not well, the pump's on constantly. didn't realise the tank wasn't big enough either, poor, poor fish.

sorry, meant to say thanks for the links, I'll go there now,

Froglet

Putting a new medium into the filter when it gets dirty is about the worst thing you can do.it destroys all the good bacteria and never gets chance to mature before it gets thrown out again.This will be where the problems have come from.If you tested the tank for ammonia and nitrite you would probably find they were off the scale.Just rinse in old tank water from the water change and put back.

What you can only do now is plenty of heavy water changes,and i do mean every day until the filter matures.this can take up to 6 weeks.The state of the water is the single most important thing to a fish and it will live and die by it.I hope it is not too late but at least he will be more comfortable.

By reading the very very good website in my link you will learn a lot more but plese don't be frightened to ask.There are many who believe the shops and they only have one goal..profit.To the detriment of the poor fish,and the stress caused to the customer and children who don't understand.

I started out 28 years ago keeping goldfish,and i am still learning.Now i have an 1800 gallon pond with about 80 happy goldfish !!

Froglet

trudij wrote: »

Oh gosh - I never realised that (will go and have a good look at the fish forums youve put up) I always thought that the tank I have (its about 35-40l) would be plenty big enough for one goldfish (not that Ive got any goldfish other than in my pond,they only come in if they are ill and thats into a temporary holiday home!!) - admittedly thats chiefly cos my friend who gave me the tank had two goldfish in it perfectly happily (well - outwardly they seemed it!) for years, and when I went to the shop to get some fish for me after my Siamese Fighter died they said it was perfectly fine for what I bought (three dwarf cherry, three rainbow dwarf fish and a bottom feeder - one of the rainbows has since died, but all the others seem really healthy.... I wouldnt ever stock a tank really densely like they do in fish shops, but even so I relied on them to tell me that I wasnt causing any sort of welfare issues....

Now I feel really guilty !!! (and am going to start another sealed pot to save up for a bigger tank for them)

That fish you found sounds like he would have been in agony - poor poor thing.

Thankyou. from me and the fish !!

Yes that fish still haunts me.They did have it in a biorb(i hate them) with another 3.They all died(lucky them) and the fish got twisted through swimming round in circles for years.They must have decided they needed the space and got a poxy bowl and put it in there .I expect it has died by now.I hope so.

Compared to the size of my goldfish that have been in ever bigger ponds in my garden,it was truly pathetic.

The comment of some people "it's only a fish" sums up a lot of people's attitudes.Sunds like yours are happy,tropicals are far easier to care for.I have 3 catfish in my tanks,2 are over 20 years old.Everything in our care deserves a decent life,from a fish to a hamster and a dog to a horse.

lobbyludd

thanks for the link- i had no idea, I've been reading around that forum, and really had no idea. We've been torturing this poor fish, I bought the bigger of the two "starter" tanks that the shop recommended.

...and then there's the filter...

I'll change the water daily and hope that helps him, but in the long run, I think we will have to rehome him (if he gets through this) because we have no room for an adequate tank or a pond

Froglet

There is something else you can do if you want to improve his living conditions .Get the largest,strongest storage container you can find,they do them about 100 litres which would be twice the tank size.Find a suitable place to keep it where it won't get disturbed,and put dechlorinated water in there,with the filter you have and some gravel in the bottom.This will give him more space and you may just reverse to a degree the twist in his body.Then you can do partial water changes,i would suggest every two or three days.It will need a cover though,and make sure it gets at least some light.If you can get some real weed for the tank it will help as he can graze on it.It is good for goldfish.

If you can find someone with a very lage tank or a pond in a month or so's time(too early yet to put in a pond,needs to warm up a lot yet,)then yes he will be a lot better off.

Don't beat yourself up though.It is the fault of the wretched fair ground that put you in this situation.You have done your best for him and with a bit of advice can continue to do so.It takes more money,space and time to care for fish properly than people realise.