MSE News: Warning: Are your kids playing these iPhone app games?

matttye

wozearly wrote: »

Arguably no different from the current situation - as the options to disable IAP and force password entry on all purchases exist currently, the developers could argue its reasonable to assume its the phone owner making / approving the purchases and Apple could argue that as features designed to prevent this weren't activated its the fault of the phone owner.

Both of those stances are reasonably watertight from a legal perspective, although not necessarily so in the court of public opinion.

If the default was made stricter, it would place both Apple and the app developers in a stronger position, as a positive action to move away from the secure default had been taken, which shift onus onto the phone owner to explain why they didn't recognise the consequences of loosening those restrictions.

On the other hand, lets assume that Jimbo96 is right and the 'vast majority' of people dislike the more restrictive setting. The same barrier of laziness / lack of awareness that has caused parents to not close this loophole would then apply to the majority of users who would leave the default turned on. Because that's, frankly, what most people do.

The more restrictive "enter a password for any purchase" and "you need to enable IAP first" add two additional hurdles to IAPs in the form of hassle. That is going to impact IAP sales, because people will abandon the process when faced with even a small barrier. If that applies to the majority rather than a minority, that hurts the revenue streams of both Apple and the app developers in order to protect the minority from accidental harm.

Call me a cynic, but I expect a similar approach that we see with banking fees to occur. The opening position will be "Its your fault, we've done nothing wrong". That will move to "Okay, we'll refund the money as long as you accept its your error" for customers who are persistent in their complaints. If too many customers complain, the iron curtain will drop and all complaints will be denied to stem losses. Then a regulator will get involved, ultimately side with the public, and finally Apple will reluctantly agree to change its practices.

After many arguments, a new model will be found. People who were skilled at avoiding the need to pay under the old model will then loudly complain that their loophole is being closed down to benefit (insert group of less skilled/aware/time-free/intelligent people here).

I think there is a difference between willingly disabling security features and just not enabling them. With the former, the security was in place but you turned it off. Not sure whether that would make any difference in a legal argument but it's definitely a distinction.

I think the saving grace so far is that the companies do seen to be refunding money quite willingly. I haven't read any stories of people who were refused a refund yet, although I guess it probably has happened by now.

fizzyfish

There are multiple forum threads all linked from the same news article in the newsletter...come on MSE, merge the threads so people can actually discuss or look at your links before mass sending please

Only so much overkill on my little pony needed

Change settings, change password if needed, simples. Educate and enjoy :beer:

thehartsters

It's not just about in-App purchases, it's also about the new PayForIt system that I wasn't even aware of until I got scammed. There IS NO security for this method, no passwords or pins you can add. The only way to prevent being caught out by this is by ensuring your phone is always in Airplane mode when your kids play the games, and also CAP your mobile bill.

I unknowingly subscribed to a service with KKO Mobile and Cellfish at a rate of £4.50 per week, through PayForIt which I was unaware of until billed at the end of the month, totalling £18 per month for nothing. Unfortunately I was not on top of my bills either so these payments have totalled £49.50. I can only think that my toddler accidently clicked through an Ad banner and it suscribed me.

Researching the PayForIt system it is worryingly insecure, no PIN numbers or secure codes are needed before companies can just start taking regular payments from unsuspecting mobile users. The email response from KKO Mobile is below which I think demonstrates that they know they are immoral if not a rogue company:

Dear Mrs H!
We still refuse refund.
Best Regards
KKO Mobile Customer Service

PS You stated "Credit cards have some security, and it seems there were no secure procedures in place for these charges to be taken with the right permissions." You couldn't be more right and talk to your operator about this issue. Your operator gives children a simcard and takes no responsibility what so ever, but let the parents find out how this complicated world is working. The mobilenet is like a virtuel shoppingcenter and simcard is the creditcard with no limits.

Looking at forums this problem is still going on and causing many people great financial difficulty, whilst this company is still reaping in the rewards from it's scrupulous scheme.

Cookie-monster_2-2

We use the iPhone & iPad we all use Candy crush saga 'free app' for which you can buy extras from extra moves at 69p for 5 which do not carry over to paint at £27.99! There is also dragonvale which you can buy gems and food for your dragons prices start around £2 but go up to £69.99!!! My kids do not have the password for iTunes so can't possibly buy in app purchases, which have been turned off anyway but I think these creators should be made to answer for their stupid prices for virtual cr*p!

koru

Note that Apple will refund in-app purchases in some cases. I just got a refund of £68 for purchases made unknowingly by my daughter on my mother's iPad. I kind of assumed they would refuse, but they could not have been more cooperative.

Perhaps this is influenced by the US court case which requires them to refund people in the US.

SchmooSquidge

Woah, after a recent incident with my 6yo, I've been going through the apps on my phone & found that Angry Birds Transformers has ridiculously expensive gem packs! I have a Samsung Galaxy S3 mini, & the game asks you to buy gems. THese range from £2.99 for a handful of gems to £69.99 for a crate of gems :eek:

SchmooSquidge

I don't have my son's Hudl to hand at the moment (as he's grounded) so not sure of the power up costs, but please be careful. We had a nasty shock on Thursday, when we found out he'd managed to spend over £80 in just a few short hours before school the previous day he's grounded & been told he's paying it back (something he's no qualms over & accepted, despite being only six) but I can't get over how easy it was for him to buy them. Other than a brief trip to the bathroom or to check on dinner, one of us is always with him when he's on his tablet! I've messaged Google to see if there's anything they'll do as a gesture of goodwill, but I'm not holding out much hope

SnowTiger

SchmooSquidge wrote: »

I don't have my son's Hudl to hand at the moment (as he's grounded) so not sure of the power up costs, but please be careful. We had a nasty shock on Thursday, when we found out he'd managed to spend over £80 in just a few short hours before school the previous day he's grounded & been told he's paying it back (something he's no qualms over & accepted, despite being only six) but I can't get over how easy it was for him to buy them. Other than a brief trip to the bathroom or to check on dinner, one of us is always with him when he's on his tablet! I've messaged Google to see if there's anything they'll do as a gesture of goodwill, but I'm not holding out much hope

What happened? Did you link your credit/debit card to his Google account; or did he get hold of one of your cards and enter the details himself?

buglawton

matttye wrote: »

AGREE it should be opt-in rather than opt-out but DISAGREE its anyone's fault but the parents.

You let your kids loose on a tablet/smartphone with your financial information on it and things will get bought. It's a no brainer. They could just as easily buy 3000 songs in iTunes.

And so many people use autocomplete, they could probably get into shopping accounts etc.

That's another thing, Firefox on a computer allows a master password to be set to block autocomplete on passwords.
Not available in Safari with Apple!
There's a little known IOS browser for iPads/iPhones called Mercury that DOES and I set all payment passwords up in this browser only on my iThings.