MSE News: 'Immoral' games which tempt kids to spend cash face OFT probe

matttye

Richard_T_ wrote: »

Personaly i think there is something fundamentaly flawed in the in-app purchasing/one click ( tap?) buying of goods and services and the cases of children running up huge bills only highlights this.

Its easy to blame the end user, but how many people are actualy fully aware of the ins and outs of how things work, especialy those with young children who will be suffering from lack of sleep, tiredness confusion and all the other things that go with sleep deprivation, while trying to hold down a job/run a household and all the rest.

The only way to solve this would be to have a system in place that makes it impossile to buy any thing without first entering your username/password, a valid card number and any passwords associated with it ( such as the 3d secure payment system) before payment is accepted.
If the above is too much for those people ho know what they are doing then there should also be an opt out system that expires after a set amount of time.

Why should everybody else suffer because a few people have made the mistake of naively letting their children run amok on a device with which they can buy things?

I for one like the quick one-click purchasing feature because it's very convenient and means I don't have to faff about entering my password each time.

gjchester

Richard_T_ wrote: »

The only way to solve this would be to have a system in place that makes it impossile to buy any thing without first entering your username/password, a valid card number and any passwords associated with it ( such as the 3d secure payment system) before payment is accepted.

Having suffered £5k of credit card fraud in the past despite being registered for the 3D secure system, I can tell you it's not secure and pretty easily defeated.

Thankfully my bank contacted me as it was an unusual spend and declined it, but the 3D Secure system was in place and didn't make any difference.

nbc

Instead of dumping your kids with a device that can tap your account (becuase your to lazy to adjust the settings).

Why not do somthing more wothwhile with them, what the heck did you have children for?

fizzyfish

This must be at least the 3rd thread started by a news post from MSE on this topic within a month, it seems to go the same way, but I almost feel not the way wanted, so yet another is started

In every news item and thread, many posters have highlighted the need for parental guidance with both device and apps, as well as explanations of the settings, and how to alter them if required.

I would hope that the education of our kids in both the technology they are using as well as the apps, along with enabling parents to do the same is the more important message to come from any of this.

FFx

KDH001

As most people have already said, there is not one application that fools anybody into spending money. Every single instance requires the input of payment details, so if parents are that stupid they deserve to be forced to make payment.
Irresponsible parenting by fools is not a defence.

missy-ss

I am one such "irresponsible parent". My children spent £612 in one month on in-app purchases. We had been hiding the password from them when we did an app purchase for them, but unbeknown to us they saw it and inputted it and spent a month downloading rubbish before we found out. They were well aware what they were doing was wrong, but, at 10 and 8, they were impulsive and not properly aware of the consequences or how things add up. The confirmation emails came to their email addresses and they deleted them. We accept we have a level of stupidity to take responsibility for, given we left our details linked, but we thought better of our normally very honest kids. The apps meanwhile are OBSENCE - what adult would spend £76 on a virtual battleship?! thus I believe the games manufacturers know they are targetting kids and don't care. So thank you so much for your compassion and sympathy, I do hope your children never let you down in this fashion as if the world is populated with self-righteous people such as you then hell mend you when that happens.

KathyTPinnage

KDH001 wrote: »

As most people have already said, there is not one application that fools anybody into spending money. Every single instance requires the input of payment details, so if parents are that stupid they deserve to be forced to make payment.
Irresponsible parenting by fools is not a defence.

I'm a newbie to posting here, but I don't think it's off topic to mention that turning off in-app purchases doesn't stop you from racking up bills for calls to premium rate numbers, even when the app is in so-called "child-mode".

I think it's too easy to call on parental responsibility when fun apps designed for children - toddlers really - allow one click to call an 09 number and stay on the line until the call is ended. I caught it in time, but others were not as fortunate. All the right safeguards were in place on my phone so it is offensive to call people who do that "that stupid".

I don't know if I can name and shame here, so I won't, but it's not fair to say it's just about parental responsibility when these games writers are making money from games aimed at children and claim a safe experience with a child mode. And you are quite simply incorrect to say that there is not one application that fools people into spending money. This one is designed to and ought to be banned.

Please someone - tell me if I'm allowed to name and shame on here, because the company concerned has ignored me complaint, as have Apple. I think they deserve it.

matttye

missy-ss wrote: »

I am one such "irresponsible parent". My children spent £612 in one month on in-app purchases. We had been hiding the password from them when we did an app purchase for them, but unbeknown to us they saw it and inputted it and spent a month downloading rubbish before we found out. They were well aware what they were doing was wrong, but, at 10 and 8, they were impulsive and not properly aware of the consequences or how things add up. The confirmation emails came to their email addresses and they deleted them. We accept we have a level of stupidity to take responsibility for, given we left our details linked, but we thought better of our normally very honest kids. The apps meanwhile are OBSENCE - what adult would spend £76 on a virtual battleship?! thus I believe the games manufacturers know they are targetting kids and don't care. So thank you so much for your compassion and sympathy, I do hope your children never let you down in this fashion as if the world is populated with self-righteous people such as you then hell mend you when that happens.

Adults do spend money on these things...go to any fan forum for these kinds of games and you'll see people who have bought them.

Your situation is different to most, where kids have simply been given the passwords, but even so, you admitted yourself that you shouldn't have left your details linked. You could also have hidden the password better or used a longer/more secure password they wouldn't have remembered even if they had seen it. Most of my passwords are over 16 characters long where allowed.

The bottom line is that a password IS required and there MUST BE user error when the kids start buying things.

KathyTPinnage wrote: »

I'm a newbie to posting here, but I don't think it's off topic to mention that turning off in-app purchases doesn't stop you from racking up bills for calls to premium rate numbers, even when the app is in so-called "child-mode".

I think it's too easy to call on parental responsibility when fun apps designed for children - toddlers really - allow one click to call an 09 number and stay on the line until the call is ended. I caught it in time, but others were not as fortunate. All the right safeguards were in place on my phone so it is offensive to call people who do that "that stupid".

I don't know if I can name and shame here, so I won't, but it's not fair to say it's just about parental responsibility when these games writers are making money from games aimed at children and claim a safe experience with a child mode. And you are quite simply incorrect to say that there is not one application that fools people into spending money. This one is designed to and ought to be banned.

Please someone - tell me if I'm allowed to name and shame on here, because the company concerned has ignored me complaint, as have Apple. I think they deserve it.

This website has named and shamed some itself so go ahead

rockin_plumber

missy-ss wrote: »

I am one such "irresponsible parent". My children spent £612 in one month on in-app purchases. We had been hiding the password from them when we did an app purchase for them, but unbeknown to us they saw it and inputted it and spent a month downloading rubbish before we found out. They were well aware what they were doing was wrong, but, at 10 and 8........

If they are there own apple devices sell them to get some of the money back, then if they want another one make them save and buy their own.

It's the only way they will learn, my 8 year old son knows this will happen should he EVER make a purchase on his iPod while it is linked to our account, without telling us first. And yes he does know our password, the only stipulation is he checks it is ok with us first.

missy-ss

rockin_plumber wrote: »

If they are there own apple devices sell them to get some of the money back, then if they want another one make them save and buy their own.

It's the only way they will learn, my 8 year old son knows this will happen should he EVER make a purchase on his iPod while it is linked to our account, without telling us first. And yes he does know our password, the only stipulation is he checks it is ok with us first.

They bought the iPods themselves with 3 years worth of birthday and Christmas money from aunties etc in the first place, and yes, I told them they would be sold on eBay to pay for it if we didn't get a refund. They haven't been allowed to play them since (3 weeks ago). The kids need to take some responsibility, as do we, but as do the games companies targeting kids, and as for judgemental people (not you) calling parents irresponsible and stupid - I suspect they are heading for a fall. Trust me, ours were very very well aware of the boundaries and had played without incident for a year, but then all of a sudden temptation became too much (they tell me they knew the password for ages before they used it). Who knows why, but wee kids sometimes succumb to temptation.