Found out my house has been underpinned

Poppy_Kennedy

HI All

I have lived in my victorian semi since 2007. I got the full survey done on the property that noted a crack outside no more than 1mm and was 'historic'

last year we had an extension and when they dug the foundations they saw it had been underpinned (not on where going to be building)

The underpinning is near the drain and the builder suspected that this was due to a collapsed drain.

I called the local council and they have no record or underpinning.

I looked back at all of my papers and no underpinning was shown up on any searches.

The vendor bought it as a repossession and when it said something along lines of 'has property suffered subsidence or had underpinning' she stated 'no'.

since then i have been a nervous wreck. What if it subsides again?? a few hairline cracks have shown in plasterwork but 2 builders think it is just old movement. i am analysing everysingle crack in the house im obsessed i cannot enjoy my home.

the house is in very good order throughout and only 3 cracked bricks are showing at the back of the house above the top window and that definately hasnt grown since we have been living here.

Seeing as nothing has been shown on searches or on the survey when we come to sell it i am thinking of not mentioning it. I know that is disloyal, but i feel pretty p*ssed off that this was not disclosed to us, and its made me feel quite anxious. i have nothign against underpinning but there is a stigma attached to it that could put alot of people off esp as i have no paperwork, warranty etc.

Also seeing as we paid nearly full asking price i would hate to sell property at a loss should any future purchaser want a discount.

How would the engineer have known about this unless he dug up the ground?

any advice welcome on what next steps are - or should i forget about it??

Thanks

Avoriaz

I'm no expert but if the house is still standing and in good order since Victorian days and any underpinning was done properly and has halted any subsidence, you probably don't have too much to worry about.

Have you spoken to your neighbours in the other half of the semi or to other nearby neighbours?

They might recall what work was done, when and why etc.

I repeat that I am no expert so my first paragraph may be misguided.

You should be careful and take professional advice about what to disclose if you do sell.

steppevos

You are probably better off for the house been underpinned: the work is already done and it clearly isn't moving anymore.
It would be helpful if you could find out when the underpinning has happened (see #2): the longer ago, the better, e.g. it should be less of issue with mortgage providers also.

Poppy_Kennedy

Thanks both for your replies - much appreciated.

I have NO idea how i would go about finding out more about this to be honest?!

DaftyDuck

I am no expert, and I don't know all the legal ins and outs like some. However, the expression "underpinning" has all sorts of terrifying connotations, especially with view to insurance and selling.

Lots of old buildings fall down a bit. I had a house that was built in 1325, timber framed, and I swear in one big wind a lean to one side became a lean to the other. It did not fall down, and it has probably been doing it for centuries. It was built on a bed of oyster shells as foundation. The wooden foundations were, in part, rotted through. It still did not fall down.

Victorian properties everywhere have, in the last 150 years, sometimes fallen a bit, cracked a bit, needed a remedial build-up, been built a bit !!!!-eyed. It doesn't really mean they have (whispers) subsidence, or that it needed a proper underpin to make it structurally sound.

I'd relax. You are probably worrying about nothing. If you have a good builder, and he's satisfied, then there's almost certainly no concern.

Frankly, if there's slippage because of a collapsed drain, I wouldn't term it underpinning myself. (Although I have admitted I don't know the legal terminology, and I'm no expert)

dacouch

steppevos wrote: »

You are probably better off for the house been underpinned: the work is already done and it clearly isn't moving anymore.
It would be helpful if you could find out when the underpinning has happened (see #2): the longer ago, the better, e.g. it should be less of issue with mortgage providers also.

The house is partially underpinned not entirely underpinned.

If it's not done properly and / or not planned properly you can end up with one part of the house considerably stronger that the rest which can cause problems.

The council not knowing about / signing off the work is unusual and would indicate the work was not done by an Insurer.

vaio

subsidence and/or underpinning = must be declared to future purchasers and insurers which will make it hard to sell and expensive (if available at all) to insurance

historical settlement and/or bulk concrete backfill to old drain repair = nothing to worry about or declare to purchasers and/or insurers

Your choice

Poppy_Kennedy

Thanks all, i really appreciate your replies on this...

the reason why i feel like i wouldnt want to delcare it to any future buyers would be:

1) people will be put off, will try and knock money off - and considering as i paid nearly full asking price it will eat into any profit, etc

2) i have no warranties or any paperwork whatsoever - which again could cause problems

3) the only reason why i think it was due to collapsed drain was because i could see the concete underpinning started by the drain at side of house

4) i woudl be none the wiser if i hadnt have had an extension

We do pay slightly more (i think) for insurance as we told them that the survey picked up historic movement.

i really wish i had some more back ground for this underpinning its really playing on my mind

NewtoDIY

Poppy_Kennedy wrote: »

Thanks all, i really appreciate your replies on this...

the reason why i feel like i wouldnt want to delcare it to any future buyers would be:

1) people will be put off, will try and knock money off - and considering as i paid nearly full asking price it will eat into any profit, etc

The problem is insurance for prospective buyers once a house has been declared as having been underpinned. Underpinning actually makes the house much safer but the insurers use it as a free for all ticket to charge whatever they want.
You're supposed to be able to pass on your current building insurer to any prospective buyers but this isn't the case always.

We were looking at houses which had been underpinned and were unable to get affordable insurance for all of them but this might have been partly to do with our profession category and the premium slapped on top.

As a previous poster said, you are supposed to declare it but if there is no documentation, it is a grey area. However, if you don't declare it to a prospective purchaser and they find it, then they might be able to claim against you.

Don't panic though. It sounds like the remedial work has been done so the only issue you have is insurance.

teneighty

If you are worried about future movement I would suggest you get a structural engineer or a chartered building surveyor to inspect the underpinning which would require part of it to be exposed. I am assuming it is just mass fill hit and miss underpinning. Also get the drains tested and inspected, again, I am assuming if that was the cause of the original subsidence then the drains have been replaced.

anotherbaldrick

I think you need to consider the nature of the ground your property is built on , you probably know what this is from the excavations you have had done for the extension. If you are on chalk or limestone generally nothing is going to go anywhere , houses in this area are on chalk and none have any problem with subsidence. What you can get with chalk is rain water leaking from drains etching away the chalk to form voids and I wonder if this is why an area of your property was stabilised.
If you are on clays movement can be more of a problem as Victorian properties did not have very deep foundations, but if this applied you would have seen cracking generally in the building particularly at the lintel ends of windows and doors.
Sand and gravels are gravels are fine for stability providing they are not waterlogged.

My general feeling from your description is you do not have a problem and would not beat myself up regarding it. I would not catagorise it as fabric underpinning but an item of foundation stabilisation to adress an isolated problem.