LA won't give copy of tenancy agreement; guarantor won't sign without it

V_Chic_Chick

I've signed for an AST in England, starting on 1st July 2013 and ending 30th June. I (& the joint tenant) have paid both the deposit and agency fee, but not any rent. It's a student property, and there is one other joint tenant. The deposit was paid on 15th March, but we have not yet received the prescribed information.

Anyway, the LA is very much dragging their feet over providing a copy of the tenancy agreement, having initially said that they would not hand it over until the guarantor had signed (there was also some mention of paying summer rent too, though this has not been mentioned of late; summer rent is not due until ~3 weeks after we have moved in).

There is a sample tenancy agreement on their website, but my guarantor wants to see a copy of the actual agreement that we signed, for fear that they are not identical.

Anyway,
a) is it legal for the LA to not provide a copy of the TA?
b) if my guarantor was not to sign, could they

i) cancel the tenancy agreement?
ii) prevent us from moving in on time?

Fire_Fox

Are you saying the tenants don't even have a copy of what they have signed? What do you mean 'some mention' of summer rent, what does the tenancy agreement say about that?

Letting agent doesn't necessarily have to do much at all, there is no contract between the agent and tenant. The guarantor is spot on not to sign without a copy of the actual tenancy agreement, that is what they are effectively party to! Tenant or guarantor should be given the opportunity to take it to a solicitor if they wish.

Speak to the landlord directly and get them to pressurise the letting agent, that is who the tenant is contracted to. Is this agent approved by the university housing service? If so ask them their policy on such matters.

G_M

V_Chic_Chick wrote: »

...Anyway,
a) is it legal for the LA to not provide a copy of the TA? Yes - legal in the sense that no law is broken, but see below!
b) if my guarantor was not to sign, could they

i) cancel the tenancy agreement? not once the TA is jointly signed by tenant and LL/agent
ii) prevent us from moving in on time? Once TSA is jointly signed, it is a legally bing contract. The guarantor agreement is totally seperate.

If the guarante agreement is signed by the guarantor without a copy of the tenancy agreement having been provided, the guarantee agreement is invalid and cannot be enforced.

To be valid, the guarantor must be aware of exactly what they are commiting to - ie what the TA terms/clauses are, what the rent is etc. A sample TA on the website would not suffice as it would not show the rent agreed, or the sart date/Term.

Incidentally, to be valid, the guarantee agreement must also be Executed as a Deed. This means the guarantor's signature must be witnessed, and the witness must also sign.

So. Guarantor can safely sign, knowing his signature is not worth the paper it is written on. You get your tenancy. Landlord gets no guarantee security.

Stupid ignorant agent.

Poor duped landlord relying on ignorant agent.

V_Chic_Chick

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Are you saying the tenants don't even have a copy of what they have signed? Correct - if I had a copy then this would not be an issue as I could photocopy it for my guarantor What do you mean 'some mention' of summer rent, what does the tenancy agreement say about that? There was verbal mention of not getting a copy of the tenancy agreement until summer rent has been paid. There is no mention of when we might get a copy of the TA on the sample tenancy agreement, though it does state that the summer rent (July & August are paid at half rent) is due on June 17th.

Letting agent doesn't necessarily have to do much at all, there is no contract between the agent and tenant. The guarantor is spot on not to sign without a copy of the actual tenancy agreement, that is what they are effectively party to! Tenant or guarantor should be given the opportunity to take it to a solicitor if they wish.

Speak to the landlord directly and get them to pressurise the letting agent, that is who the tenant is contracted to. Unfortunately I don't know who the LL is. The address for the serving of notices is the agent's, and the LL's name was the rather cryptic 'I.P.P.'. Am I right in thinking that running a search on the Land Registry should show up the LL's name (& address?)? Is this agent approved by the university housing service? Many of the agent's properties are listed on the uni housing service's website, so I presume so If so ask them their policy on such matters. This is a very good idea - I may go and have a chat with them when I return to my term time address on Tuesday

G_M wrote: »

If the guarante agreement is signed by the guarantor without a copy of the tenancy agreement having been provided, the guarantee agreement is invalid and cannot be enforced. Many thanks; this is better than I expected, and I have found a few sources online to throw at the LA if need be (landlord law blog, for instance)

To be valid, the guarantor must be aware of exactly what they are commiting to - ie what the TA terms/clauses are, what the rent is etc. A sample TA on the website would not suffice as it would not show the rent agreed, or the sart date/Term.

Incidentally, to be valid, the guarantee agreement must also be Executed as a Deed. This means the guarantor's signature must be witnessed, and the witness must also sign. The guarantor form is executed as a deed

So. Guarantor can safely sign, knowing his signature is not worth the paper it is written on. You get your tenancy. Landlord gets no guarantee security. Yes - but do I really want to have to fight this one out in court? Probably not!

Stupid ignorant agent.

Poor duped landlord relying on ignorant agent.

Many thanks both of you - I will try and contact the LA again on Monday. Unfortunately I return to my uni address on Tuesday, and may very well not return to my hometown (where my guarantor, my dad, lives) until after the new tenancy has started. That will make it much more difficult to sort it out - everything will have to be done by post.

Ironically enough we chose this agent because friends have had a good experience with them!