Boss questioning illness - constructive dismissal?

Varren12

I'm currently a student working part time (2 shifts a week) at a chain of bars. I've been working for them for nearly 6 months, and during that time i've been a hard worker, and done everything, and then some that i've been asked during a shift to do, and get on well with the vast majority of the staff, and management team. That includes coming in on my days off when asked at short notice, and even trying to come up with ideas to save them money.

Just to preface this - I don't have the money to be able to take time off, and hate not working. If I was able to, I would work more hours in fact. I've also got no time for idiots who go out and get drunk the night before a shift, and I wouldn't dream of doing it myself.

I've come up against my GM when i've been ill, and unable to work on our busiest night when i've come back from being home for a week. Both cases, I had been out earlier in the week (2 days before being due back in), I had rang in both times early to let management know I was not in a fit state to work (Vomiting at work, or being on the verge of passing out - not what you want in a busy work environment.) and was clearly ill when I spoke to them.

The first time, I had an angry phone call from the GM within a matter of minutes accusing me of "taking the !!!!", and merely being hungover, and I was told my "conscience should decide for me." when I tried to explain I was really ill. The second occasion, a message was posted in the staff group by the GM stating that I'd been home for the week, then called in sick, and there was a pattern emerging - including then calling into question my commitment to "quality work.".- baring in mind this can be seen by every single member of staff, and even managers from other venues, i'm quite angry and upset. Probably doesn't help that I'm still quite ill and not had a lot of sleep, but thats besides the point.

When I bought up the flack I got for being ill with a supervisor the first time, I was merely told that "Sadly it happens, you're not allowed a damn day off here..". Something that I guess should have set off alarm bells.

I don't know how to deal with the situation, nor do I particularly want to leave the company as I do enjoy working there - but I'm on the verge of doing so, due to this behavior as its making me feel worried about coming into work, and whether i'll be looked over for advancement.

I'm concerned about pushing the matter further up the chain, as the manager is one of the best in the entire company and lined up for an area manager role. I fear the damage it would do to my future employability if I did that, or if I attempted to bring the matter to a tribunal, so I'm somewhat unsure how to proceed - I would really appreciate any suggestions in how to deal with this situation.

AP007

big well known company?

paddedjohn

Since you have only been there for only 6 months they can get rid of you very easily and you will have no joy with a tribunal.

Crazy_Jamie

On a practical level, you say that you are worried that this incident may result in you being looked over for 'advancement', but you are doing two shifts a week. Is this the sort of position where you would expect promotion? I only ask because it sounds to me like something to make a bit of money on the side rather than a viable career option, though by all means I may be wrong about that.

It is not an ideal situation, though as has already been stated because you have only been working there for 6 months your prospects of taking the matter to a tribunal are practically zero. That includes constructive and unfair dismissal; within two years your employer does not need to show a fair reason for dismissal, so providing there has not been discrimination or a handful of other situations haven't arisen, you don't have a leg to stand on.

On the assumption that you don't want to leave the job at this stage, your options therefore appear to be either returning to work and sticking it out, or raising a grievance about the manager's behaviour. In all honesty I would go for the former. The harsh reality is that you can be dismissed for almost any reason or no reason at all at this point, so 'making waves' in the form of a grievance may just not practically be the right thing to do if you want to keep on working there. Your alternative is to stick it out and prove this manager's perceptions wrong, which as I say is probably what I would do in the circumstances.

Whilst the manner in which the manager has dealt with it doesn't appear to be appropriate, personally I would think of two sick days off in less than six months as being somewhat excessive, especially from a part time employee who doesn't have a proven track record to fall back on. Equally I don't think its wholly unreasonable to be suspicious as to whether or not they are genuine where seemingly having sick days off due to hangovers is not uncommon, though whether or not those suspicions should be raised with you and/or posted in a public forum is another matter entirely.

At the end of the day you want to keep this job, so in my eyes the correct approach would be to get your head down and prove this manager wrong.

Evilm

Well its certainly not Constructive Dismissal.

However you should ask the GM that if he has personal related issues with you he should deal with you directly and not post them publicly in a open staff forum.

getmore4less

So the boss does not believe you are sick.

I don't think that would be seen as a fundemental breach of contract that would get far at an ET(even if you had worked there for years)

Resigning over this would go nowhere at an ET unless you have followed the full grievence procedures.

Follow the proccedures for notification of being sick, let the GM follow procedures if they want to take it further.


You need to get to the bottom of why you keep being sick.

I note in your first post you have only been there 6 months but have been telling them how to do their jobs(Ideas to save money) , remember they employ students to do the grunt work(cheap) not be offsick and smart a***s unless you are planning a career in the trade.

By going home does this mean you were not available during the holidays?

Easter weekend was the busiest time for bars since NY, our local JDW was rammed from Thurs afternoon to Sunday.

chewynut

To be honest, your GM has a point. Take a step back and try to read your post like it's about somebody else. It does look like there's a pattern.

You're playing a dangerous game by insisting you're too ill to work when you've only been there for six months. I know it sucks having to work when you feel crappy but at least then your GM can see that you're ill rather than having to take your word for it over the phone.

Varren12

@AP007: Yes, but I'd rather not state which one for obvious reasons.

@Jamie: Thanks for the response. In terms of track record, I've got 4 years bar industry experience, and glowing references from other bars I've worked in. As i've done shifts where i've been in from 2 or 3 in the afternoon til 4am the next day, and come in early when requested, or even on days off, I don't think its a matter of proven track record. Or i'd hope not anyway. Unfortunately, it seems that the vast majority of staff will come in when ill, to the point where it does more harm than good because they're worried of the response they'll get from the management team.

I could understand the concern that staff were hungover - but when i've been fairly vocal about my own dislike for staff doing that, or worse, showing up drunk before now, then I'm somewhat bemused I'm getting singled out for it. If I was able to walk in and show that I was ill, then I'd do so. I'd prefer not to take pictures of my own vomit to prove i'm ill, but that seems likely that i'd have to do it.

I wasn't aware that the protection had been increased to two years, rather than one, thanks for that.

Its an average of 14-16 hours per week, but can go up to 40 hours depending on the week in question. In terms of advancement, yes, there is that opportunity available to move up the career ladder inside the company depending on skills, knowledge, length of service, and how much your "face fits.".

@EvilM: As far as I understood it, theres about 3-4 prior cases were this behavior (if it continues to happen), in particular, public dressing down of staff, swearing, etc. as its a breach of contract. If it gets to the point where I feel I can no longer work for those reasons and feel that I have to leave due to events like this, (please correct me if I'm wrong here) surely it could be classed as constructive dismissal? Regardless of the 2 years?

notanewuser

Varren12 wrote: »

@AP007: Yes, but I'd rather not state which one for obvious reasons.

@Jamie: Thanks for the response. In terms of track record, I've got 4 years bar industry experience, and glowing references from other bars I've worked in. As i've done shifts where i've been in from 2 or 3 in the afternoon til 4am the next day, and come in early when requested, or even on days off, I don't think its a matter of proven track record. Or i'd hope not anyway. Unfortunately, it seems that the vast majority of staff will come in when ill, to the point where it does more harm than good because they're worried of the response they'll get from the management team.

I could understand the concern that staff were hungover - but when i've been fairly vocal about my own dislike for staff doing that, or worse, showing up drunk before now, then I'm somewhat bemused I'm getting singled out for it. If I was able to walk in and show that I was ill, then I'd do so. I'd prefer not to take pictures of my own vomit to prove i'm ill, but that seems likely that i'd have to do it.

I wasn't aware that the protection had been increased to two years, rather than one, thanks for that.

Its an average of 14-16 hours per week, but can go up to 40 hours depending on the week in question. In terms of advancement, yes, there is that opportunity available to move up the career ladder inside the company depending on skills, knowledge, length of service, and how much your "face fits.".

@EvilM: As far as I understood it, theres about 3-4 prior cases were this behavior (if it continues to happen), in particular, public dressing down of staff, swearing, etc. as its a breach of contract. If it gets to the point where I feel I can no longer work for those reasons and feel that I have to leave due to events like this, (please correct me if I'm wrong here) surely it could be classed as constructive dismissal? Regardless of the 2 years?

Nope. Unless its harassment or dismissal due to a protected characteristic (race, sex, disability etc) then you have no protection until you've worked there for 2 years.

zzzLazyDaisy

Varren12 wrote: »

If it gets to the point where I feel I can no longer work for those reasons and feel that I have to leave due to events like this, (please correct me if I'm wrong here) surely it could be classed as constructive dismissal? Regardless of the 2 years?

You are wrong. Sorry.

1 Since the change in the law last year, you now have to have two years' service with the employer before you can make a claim for unfair or constructive dismissal. During that two years the employer can dismiss you for any reason or no reason at all (provided the reason does not breach the anti-discrimination legislation), and your ONLY entitlement would be to be given your contractual notice.

2 In any event, even if you did have the right to make a CD claim, you must first exhaust the employer's grievance procedures. Of course once you start a grievance the likelihood is that your 'card' will be marked as a troublemaker, and it is highly likely that your employment will be ended on some pretext or another shortly afterwards. In which case, if you are still within the first two years of employment, see point 1 above.

LittleVoice

Are the only occasions when you have had to phone in sick those where you have returned from a visit home? If so, what is it that is affecting you about either being at home or leaving home?