Working in an office

Poppy9

marisco wrote: »

It sounds to me like your colleagues have got themselves stuck in a rut, dont have the ambition to progress and are bored and jaded in their roles.

Turn this on its head for a minute and look at it from another perspective. You are young, bright, keen and able to pick things up fast, run with it and deliver beyond your expectations and theirs. Something tells me that they feel threatened by your abilities, which is why they veto your ideas and grunt.

Who comes across as more impressive? The young, eager, employee or the older, fed up, hanging out till retirement employee? This is a case of a few green eyed monsters having a strop.

Good luck finding a new job. The sooner you move onwards and upwards the happier you will be.

This is very judgemental and assuming that all the others are at fault.

I've actually been in team meetings where one person constantly wants to show superior knowledge, that they don't actually possess, and has a brilliant idea that will actually make us more inefficient! They think their way of doing things is better and we should all do the same, where as our job involves working with a huge range of departmental managers and we have to tailor our dealing with them to reflect the dept. managers skills/personality. Most of us prefer to work with our managers not against them. So you can imagine, we often groan when they pipe up with "I think we should all.................."

Young, old, male, females, we can all work together and get along but there is always one:D

OP I'm not saying you are at fault but perhaps you need to back off and observe the dynamics of the clique. If there is a true clique you don't have to be part of it out side of work but during work hours it would help to at least be on civil terms with them.

coolcait

I can't say that I agree with you very much Poppy9.

If someone comes up with an idea in a team meeting, and you disagree with it, then the adult and professional way to deal with it is to say "I'm afraid I can't agree with you, Poppy9, because [give reason]"

Simply groaning at the idea is neither adult nor professional.

"Neither adult nor professional" is a description which I would apply to much of the 'advice' in your two posts here.

OP, you've been given a lot of good advice by others on the thread.

It takes a lot of confidence to be your own person and true to yourself - even if that puts you 'outside' the group that you work with.

Or age. I'm too old to ever want to 'fit in' with the kind of group you describe.

Poppy9

coolcait wrote: »

I can't say that I agree with you very much Poppy9.

If someone comes up with an idea in a team meeting, and you disagree with it, then the adult and professional way to deal with it is to say "I'm afraid I can't agree with you, Poppy9, because [give reason]"

Simply groaning at the idea is neither adult nor professional.

"Neither adult nor professional" is a description which I would apply to much of the 'advice' in your two posts here.

OP, you've been given a lot of good advice by others on the thread.

It takes a lot of confidence to be your own person and true to yourself - even if that puts you 'outside' the group that you work with.

Or age. I'm too old to ever want to 'fit in' with the kind of group you describe.

but when you have exhausted the "it won't work because" numerous times before and even the line manager has explained in detail why it won't work and the person continues to raise it then there are quiet groans and looking at the floor because this person insists on wasting time repeating why they think it's a good idea.

It's no fun being an outsider in work and you spend a lot of time with your work colleagues so if you are going to stick it out then you either have to be happy to be unhappy in work or find a way of getting along with them.

You can never like everyone, you will always come across people you don't get along with but the adult thing to do is to try to deal with the situation and to look at yourself to see if you are at fault.

Working in an office is not for everyone. Female only offices can be incredibily !!!!!y. I count myself very luck with my current office colleagues (a mixed bunch age which include someone from every group). We all get along (there are 45 of us) and some of us are very close. We don't see ourselves as a clique, we are close because we've known one another for years or have a lot in common. When we go out we invite everyone. When we organise secret santa we extend it to everyone but the fact is that they don't all want to come or join in and that is their right.

People shouldn't assume that if you are talking about someone it's because you are being !!!!!y, often it's out of concern. I remember being very worried about one work friend and talking to another about it in work on the quiet to see if they had noticed. They hadn't but then I'm one of those people that pick up on moods. No way was I !!!!!ing and I didn't see it as gossiping. The work friend was indeed ill and a few months later committed suicide. Totally devastated all the office, not just those of us who were close to him. There were those who were totally shocked as they hadn't seen he was ill, then there were those of us who knew he wasn't well and had tried totalk to him and offer support. In fact it was in the office kitchen that he opened up to me and told me how bad things were.

ps I love how you try to sound superior here

"Neither adult nor professional" is a description which I would apply to much of the 'advice' in your two posts here.

like you are above all that but the truth is no matter what your age or experience as a human being you want to be liked and to be with people you like. I got the feeling that you hoped your line would be a put down to me but instead it just made me LOL !

I can say hand on heart no one has ever called me immature or unprofessional in all my working career. I'm happy I am a trusted and valued employee and importantly that I can work easily with my colleagues and don't dread going into work. Oh I also get mentioned in despatches at interdepartmental Senior Management meetings for my helpful nature which is such a lovely compliment.

I worked part time for over 15 years and did wonder if I could stand office politics 5 days a week after only enduring for half the week for so long but it's fine. Most people are nice people, you just have to tap into their niceness.

Funky_Bold_Ribena

Ok, you are being bullied. So you need to start being brave.

Every time you encounter a bullying instance, you look at your watch, pull out your diary, open it slowly and deliberately to today's page, note the time, place, what was said and by whom, and all witnesses. If asked, you say 'I have been advised to record each and every incident of bullying'. And you say no more.

Or you can start,with some smart retorts, practiced at home so that you can voice them 'oh no, another grunt. Do you need the toilet? It's just outside to the left. It's ok, we'll wait for you as I'm sure your input will be worth waiting for.'

Or have a game of 'bullying bingo' and when you get a line or house, cross it off in red and leave it on your desk for them to see when they rifle through your papers, which they probably will be doing. Date it so that you are recording it, and take a photo each day to build your records up.

Or you need to ignore them, or find another job.

This won't go away so you need to decide how to handle it.

Eta: in any bullying situation, I'd suggest sitting with the manager and discussing how to manage the bullying, usually the person would get their evidence, take out a grievance and then the manager would have to investigate and discipline. Sometimes, just knowing they are being monitored can stop the bullying in its tracks. Hence noting it down each time.

thunderbird

What is the particular type of work that you are doing/industry you are in?

From what you have said, I think looking for a new job is probably a good idea (if they are available) but in the meantime, don't concern yourself with what the grunters think of you - management appear to be happy with you and have noticed the problem others are causing so you have nothing to prove. I also wouldn't bother socialising with people you don't like - treat work as a professional place rather than an opportunity to make friends and be popular.

dontone

asusasus wrote: »

I guess my age comes across a lot in my post, yes my co-workers are all 20 + years older than me, which makes it all the harder to understand their behaviour and attitude.

Been there, done that. Any job I have had, I've been in a warehouse environment and ended up in an office, and I'll be honest, I find an office environment one of the worst and hostile places to ever be in. There is always someone with a feeling of superiority, and others just follow suit. Not saying every office in the country is like that, but it seems to be one of those places where one-up-man-ship is common. I'll never understand it.
I've found that in an office world, cliques are par for the course, it'll be formed over daft things, like hair colour, or if someone only buys Iceberg Lettuce at M&S - really, stupid stuff. I have had more run ins with people that have this kind of attitude, and come to the conclusion that they are only people that you have to put up with for 8 hours a day. Once that clock hits 5pm, you can forget about them, take of the Kevlar blouse (protects against the amount of backstabbing that goes off) go home and just relax. I never bothered with the nights out (sometimes it was because I wasn't invited, but n/m) so that made me more of an outcast, but tbh, I never wanted to socialise with them anyway, as they'd always be having a pop at somebody for something. Who wants to be in that kind of situation if it's something that makes you uncomfortable?
Tell ya, the last lot I worked were terrible, admittedly, I was away from them in another office, but had to go into theirs frequently, and I was treated like dog poop most of the time. To them, I was the weirdo, because I didn't smoke, didn't dye my hair black, pluck my eyebrows off, I swore like a trooper in the warehouse, had no airs and graces, wore Doc Martens instead of heels, I had an answer for everything, and, the ultimate sin, I refused to acknowledge the pecking order that they seemed to have. So I was the enemy. Not that I cared.
All I can say to you OP, is to have a diary ready at all times, jot everything bad down. Do your own thing. Let the grunter, grunt, they are only making themselves look bad in managements eyes. If it gets a bit much, go out of the office for 5 mins. But always be civil, grit your teeth & try and get along with them, you might get lucky and get something else, but in the meantime, put on a happy façade, remember, you are only there for 8 hours. Go for a walk at lunch time, get some air, if there's a park & a pond, feed the ducks (good stress buster) it's good to split the day up and get out.
Stop the nights out thing too, it's getting you down. In their eyes, you will never part of their group, and be honest, do you really want to be? Sounds like it's bad enough spending time through the day with them, why bother on a night?
Remember, they are work colleagues, not friends.

Bella73

balletshoes wrote: »

Would it help you if you just stopped trying so hard to get in with the cliques? It might help your stress levels to just stop trying so hard.

Clearly you have no time for office gossip, and thats fine. If everyone else revels in it, and you refuse to get involved in it, I can see why you might not be included by your workmates. I'm not saying its mature or fair, I'm just saying that might be whats going on.

I've worked in office environments all my adult working life. I used to be the quiet one, but I haven't had people (to my face anyway) talk about uneven workloads, bosses pet etc etc. I also don't openly show disdain for the office gossip. I don't participate, but I can appear to be listening. I think a lot of office gossip is to help fill the day to be honest.

With age comes more confidence I think - now I'm in a team where I can put up with everyone, I'm not best friends with any of them because its a job - its what I do 6 hours a day then I come home and get on with my life.

I agree with this really. I too have worked in offices for the last 22 years.

So ok you don't do gossip, lots of people don't despite what the media portray of offices, but do you just not participate or put those down that do?

When you start a job it's all very new and exciting, however, don't be too quick to put the long standing staff down, they may have worries that you know nothing about. In my job I've been there for 16 years and have seen lots of staff come and go, some fit in like a glove others don't, it's called life.

Just because its your work environment you can't expect everyone to love you and your new ideas, some people don't like change, I got my job because the woman I replaced didn't want to use computers.

We have a varied staff, some I quite like but there are a couple if they jumped off a cliff I wouldn't really mind (OMG I sound evil but one is the biggest jobs worth I have met, if there isn't a protocol it's not going to happen type person:eek:) but superficially for the office I get on with them all, even the ones who smell (yep we are dead lucky where I work).

However in all those years there is one person (who has since left) that I still see and can call a friend, people you work with generally aren't your friends they are colleagues.

You say you are not invited to lunch, why not try inviting someone out yourself rather than waiting for it to happen? If they all say no then you know where you are and either live with it or get out.

Don't lump all older employees together either, we have a massive age range and some if the younger ones are fab but others aren't.

I too find it odd that they are talking about uneven workloads to you but if you sit and study your workload honestly is it the same/more/less only you can answer that (I don't mean you need to tell us on the forum).

I get a lot of extra stuff over other staff as a) I know what to do with it and b) get it done and does it annoy other people... I've no idea or care.

thehappybutterfly

Oh, the nightmare of office politics! I have also worked in offices for 20+ years and I cna tell you now, no matter where you go you will encounter the same type of people. Personally, if you really love your job and the organisation you work for, if the pay and conditions are great, don't leave. Don't let them drive you out of your job - that's what they want.

I work in an office of about 15 people and we all get on with one another - with the exception of one person. She's been there the longest and has got away with bullying and laziness for years. We've lost a few people over the years who have left because of her but there are a couple of us who refuse to leave. Why should we? I love my job, I love the company I work for and the conditions are excellent. I could easily find another job but would probably have to drop salary by about £6000 and I'm not prepared to do that because of one horrible person.

I know you're talking about everyone in your team which is going to be a lot harder. Is there anyone else in the office who might seem to be nicer than the rest? Someone who might be an ally?

I'd speak to your line manager, get it on record that you're being treated badly by your co-workers and ask them how you should handle it - this shows a level of maturity and professionalism. You're saying that you're unhappy about the way you're being treated but you're not saying "they're picking on me! Make them stop". It's really up to managers to handle this correctly. Definitely take a note of incidents and personally, I'd stop socialising with them.

Above all, don't give in to them and don't lower yourself to their standards. I know it's hard - everyone wants to fit in but not at the expense of your morals. I became a gossip many years ago to fit in and I really regret it. I'm happy to say that I eventually grew out of it.

Good luck and to coin my favourite phrase - don't let the barstewards get you down!

System

It looks like the nail that sticks out is getting hammered down! It doesn't sound very pleasant having to go to work when the others are ostracizing you. It's hard to gauge exactly why they are doing this just from reading a post on a forum, but I think sometimes when people are unfulfilled and aren't stretched enough they start to get very petty. Perhaps this is the case with these colleagues? However, this doesn't excuse their behaviour and I don't think I would cope well with working in that kind of atmosphere.

poet123

I worked in an office for many years and now work in a staff room. The politics are the same wherever you work, because people are the same. They fall into the same stereotypes and you just have to learn to cope with them and manage them. You will never change them.

It is hard when you first start working to sort the wheat from the chaff but over time you will develop the ability to do it. If you come at it from the angle of no one is perfect and as much as I find them irritating they may feel the same way about me you will fare better than confrontation (not that you sound at all confrontational)

However, sometimes you need to surprise them and put down a marker as to where your line is. If they behave unprofessionally in a meeting or elswhere, call them on it, but with a smile and in jokey way, it diffuses the situation but leaves them in doubt you have caught onto them. If it happens frequently after that drop the joking and tell them straight.

Cliques are not always what they seem either. There will be one or two within them who are there only because they don't fancy the alternative; your position of isolation. Watch them and find out who looks uncomfortable, who looks bored with the idle gossip and try to ally yourself with them. Gossip is rife in an office and you will never eradicate it, you don't have to actively participate but if you seem aloof or completely disinterested it will mark you out. Smile and nod and make the odd innocuous comment and they will be satisfied.

If you intend to work in offices this is the environment you have to contend with. Once you assess the dynamic you will get on better.

All that said if a job is making you really miserable, such that you feel ill on Sundays at the prospect of going in on Monday, then the line has been crossed and you need to make a change. Only you know whether this situation is redeemable using any of the above tactics. If it really isn't, (and you don't want to go down the grievance route against colleagues) change jobs, start afresh, but bear in mind that you will encounter this type of issue again, so arm your self in advance with the tools to survive(!)

Good luck OP.