No viewings in a month - "illegal" loft conversion

SternMusik

The layout/loft room issue seems to be the main sticking point. A few other things I noticed:

Where do you park at the moment? Do you have double yellow lines out at the front?

Your front garden seems to have a shared path with the neighbours, and the neighbours' side is not very well kept (from the photos). That would put me off using the front garden as a proper garden.

Your back garden appears to extend over the neighbours side on the left? It almost looks like "land grabbing" has taken place at some point in the past. I wouldn't feel comfortable with this garden arrangement which must have left the neighbours with almost nothing in terms of a back garden.

Someone else has mentioned this, your downstairs suffers from corridor syndrome, with the house being only 3.6m wide and quite long. Anything you can do to make the downstairs appear more light and airy would help I think.

mummyroysof3

I think the problem will be the bedroom in the front downstairs room and that the loft room may not have been done properly to use as a bedroom. Who is living in the house? Can the loft be an office with sofa bed? So them living room can be in front. Ca that bathroom be split to use half as a single bedroom? Perhaps cost too much though.

chappers

Your EA need shooting the reason you aren't getting any viewings is because your EA has described a perfectly good(although failing BR) bedroom as loft space whilst describing your living room/hallway as a bedroom.
What are the layouts of the houses originaly are they 1 beds.
You need to be describing the house as having two reception rooms 1 bedroom and a coverted loft room currently used as a bedroom or you should be thinking of creating a small landing and doorway at the top of the stairs of the loft room describing it as a bedroom.
You will get picked up on the lack of Building regs but hopefully you can address that via indemnity insurance.
You have to at least get people through the door and you're not going to do that by trying to cheat a second bedroom inside the front door.
People will look at that and think groundfloor bedroom no and move on, at least with the loft they can make their own judgement call once they have seen it.

martinsurrey

chappers wrote: »

Your EA need shooting the reason you aren't getting any viewings is because your EA has described a perfectly good(although failing BR) bedroom as loft space whilst describing your living room/hallway as a bedroom.
What are the layouts of the houses originaly are they 1 beds.
You need to be describing the house as having two reception rooms 1 bedroom and a coverted loft room currently used as a bedroom or you should be thinking of creating a small landing and doorway at the top of the stairs of the loft room describing it as a bedroom.
You will get picked up on the lack of Building regs but hopefully you can address that via indemnity insurance.
You have to at least get people through the door and you're not going to do that by trying to cheat a second bedroom inside the front door.
People will look at that and think groundfloor bedroom no and move on, at least with the loft they can make their own judgement call once they have seen it.

NO NO NO!

You can’t describe a room as something you KNOW it isn’t or the buyer can and will chase you for costs through the court (and will win) as you are deliberately misdescribing the property.

Its not a bedroom as it isn’t a habitable space, its a boarded loft space at best.

In order to properly describe it as a bedroom it NEEDS regs sign off, which will need a lot more work than a simple corridor on the top level (it needs a protected staircase), until then that space will only ever be loft space in fact using it as a bedroom is illegal, and could invalidate the building insurance if a fire started up there.

As the property currently stands there are 2 marketing strategies, as a one bed with a loft room and 2 family rooms, or as it is, 2 beds with a downstairs bedroom.

The agent is aware that a one bed will be listed for FAR less than a 2 bed.

The OP is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

DaftyDuck

Kastanie wrote: »

I disagree. The price appears rather optimistic for the location (which I'm very familiar with), the fact that it's not clear whether it's actually a 1 bed plus loft room, and the fact that at least some work will need doing.

I didn't say the price was exactly right... I'm not in the school of "my house is worth exactly..." But, fundamentally, there's nothing wrong with the price to the extent it should be changed so early. We are one month into marketing, not six, and not a year. So, no viewings yet? Sure, look at improving the details, improve the photos, but overall, not panic.

Martinsurrey is 100% right Never mis-describe a room as something that it legally isn't; you'll irritate a viewer and lose a sale at best, or lose a courtcase later at worst.

Bit of a tidy-up of photos, sharp word to estate agent on wording, demand he earn his fee, then bottle of wine or a night out to forget all the problems of home ownership.

chappers

martinsurrey wrote: »

NO NO NO!

You can’t describe a room as something you KNOW it isn’t or the buyer can and will chase you for costs through the court (and will win) as you are deliberately misdescribing the property.

Its not a bedroom as it isn’t a habitable space, its a boarded loft space at best.

In order to properly describe it as a bedroom it NEEDS regs sign off, which will need a lot more work than a simple corridor on the top level (it needs a protected staircase), until then that space will only ever be loft space in fact using it as a bedroom is illegal, and could invalidate the building insurance if a fire started up there.

As the property currently stands there are 2 marketing strategies, as a one bed with a loft room and 2 family rooms, or as it is, 2 beds with a downstairs bedroom.

The agent is aware that a one bed will be listed for FAR less than a 2 bed.

The OP is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Sorry I missed a few words from my sentance there should have said "being used as a bedroom" which I did say in the para before.
You are correct that it can't be described as a bedroom, but EAs have ways around this.

I am fully aware of building regs surrounding loft conversions it's what I have been doing for a living for the last 15 years.
Using the space as a bedroom however is not illegal and I very much doubt would invalidate any insurance.
A few years ago I did a loft conversion to a room that was a partial conversion, in a house, where a plumber set fire to the roof of the house next door which spread into the other roof, all paid for by insurance

martinsurrey

chappers wrote: »

Sorry I missed a few words from my sentance there should have said being used as abedroom which I did say in the para before.

I am fully aware of building regs surrounding loft conversions it's what I have been doing for a living for the last 15 years.

But by putting 'currently used a bedroom', you are breaking the law as it shouldn’t be used as a bedroom as its not a habitable space.

chappers

martinsurrey wrote: »

But by putting 'currently used a bedroom', you are breaking the law as it shouldn’t be used as a bedroom as its not a habitable space.

If I decide to use my loft as a bedroom perhaps you could point me in the direction of the laws I would be breaking.
I am aware that the creation of a habitable room without building regs consent is illegal, but the use of a non compliant room isn't.
A description of what someone else is doing is not illegal.

I have just looked at trading standards and they say that great care should be used and whilst they suggest as an example that saying a boarded loft room would be a suitable phrase , they go on to say that stating that relevant permissions havent been granted , would also be acceptable. They also make it clear that verbal description is as valid as written.
They do also suggest that many things that EAs do, should be avoided, such as taking pictures of the rolling fields whilst missing out the paint factory next door.

martinsurrey

chappers wrote: »

Using the space as a bedroom however is not illegal and I very much doubt would invalidate any insurance.
A few years ago I did a loft conversion to a room that was a partial conversion, in a house, where a plumber set fire to the roof of the house next door which spread into the other roof, all paid for by insurance

All insurance policies have conditions that all work was done to the relevant building standards in force at the time of the work.

This conversion hasn’t.

If a fire started in the loft from a hairdryer, in what was obviously used as a bedroom, ingites the floor(or something on it), which then ignites the new loft lining (which needs regs approval as a thermal element), this causes the roof to give way faster than it should which makes the loft joists fail faster than they should, and the fire go unnoticed longer than it should (no interlinked fire alarms at a guess), which makes the whole house fall down, the insurance company would say it’s your own fault that the damage is as bad as it is, due to negligence of not following building regs, claim denied, or at least very much reduced.

martinsurrey

chappers wrote: »

If I decide to use my loft as a bedroom perhaps you could point me in the direction of the laws I would be breaking.
I am aware that the creation of a habitable room without building regs consent is illegal, but the use of a non compliant room isn't.
A description of what someone else is doing is not illegal.

I have just looked at trading standards and they say that great care should be used and whilst they suggest as an example that saying a boarded loft room would be a suitable phrase , they go on to say that stating that relevant permissions havent been granted , would also be acceptable. They also make it clear that verbal description is as valid as written.
They do also suggest that many things that EAs do, should be avoided, such as taking pictures of the rolling fields whilst missing out the paint factory next door.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/55/section/35

buildings act 1984

"
If a person contravenes any provision contained in building regulations, other than a provision designated in the regulations as one to which this section does not apply, he is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale and to a further fine not exceeding £50 for each day on which the default continues after he is convicted.
"