he has taken her kids!

marywooyeah

gizmo111 wrote: »

I know exactly what the no order principle is and an IRO with contact order would be her best option, my thinking is not illogical - clearly she won't be doing it same as she apparetnly hasn't bothered getting her children back - which is something she was advised to do many hours ago.

Where did you mention a Contact Order earlier? I didn't see it. I presume you mean contact for Dad rather than grandparents in any event.

I would submit that it's much easier to get a PSO and SI ex parte than it is an IRO, especially when she's not in permanent accomodation at the moment. If she were to obtain an IRO, this would inevitably lead to further proceedings whereas an PSO (barring a review hearing if necessary) and SI could put an end to things.

It's not as simple as "getting her kids back" - either she goes round with the police, providing they agree to help, and collects them or she gets an ex parte order, which depending on finances/time of day she sees the Solicitor will bear upon how quickly they can get a case together and before a judge. For all we know the matter could have been listed for tommorow morning.

gizmo111

marywooyeah wrote: »

Where did you mention a Contact Order earlier? I didn't see it. I presume you mean contact for Dad rather than grandparents in any event.

I would submit that it's much easier to get a PSO and SI ex parte than it is an IRO, especially when she's not in permanent accomodation at the moment. If she were to obtain an IRO, this would inevitably lead to further proceedings whereas an PSO (barring a review hearing if necessary) and SI could put an end to things.

It's not as simple as "getting her kids back" - either she goes round with the police, providing they agree to help, and collects them or she gets an ex parte order, which depending on finances/time of day she sees the Solicitor will bear upon how quickly they can get a case together and before a judge. For all we know the matter could have been listed for tommorow morning.

You have your opinion and I have mine - ex-parte orders are not favoured by courts - and yes contact for the dad and grandparents if appropriate as a IRO will only state who the children live with - not what contact he has - if he runs off with them again then the order shows exactly what is what and the police can act on that - not a time limited PSO or SIO whih wont cover the whole situation.

Do you work in this field?

moneysaymoneydo

I think there must be more to this story than meets the eye. Mother has PND yet leaves her house to move into a flat and leaves it 3 weeks before seeking advice re the kids being at the grandparents? surely you would at the solicitors at earliest convienience and police, Social Services etc. I am wondering if there has been a build up to husband leaving and taking kids i mean he would be really selfish if he was doing it for the sake of it and dumping it with his parents, maybe the OP if has PND could be giving him cause for concern.

marywooyeah

gizmo111 wrote: »

You have your opinion and I have mine - ex-parte orders are not favoured by courts - and yes contact for the dad and grandparents if appropriate as a IRO will only state who the children live with - not what contact he has - if he runs off with them again then the order shows exactly what is what and the police can act on that - not a time limited PSO or SIO whih wont cover the whole situation.

Do you work in this field?

Yes I do work in family law alongside completing my LLB, in addition to having spent the previous year as a fulltime paralegal in the same field.

Ex parte Orders can be obtained in an emergency situation, which on the facts provided the op's friend has a strong case for. You are correct to state that ex parte orders are not favoured - this is partially because they are supposed to be reserved for emergency cases but some people try to use them to bypass the "regular" court application process.

You say a PSO and SI will not cover the whole situation, and you are correct. However, I would submit that it would appropriately deal with the immediate situation and get the children returned. She would then have the option to consider applying for a RO or IRO providing of course that the dispute over residence continues, and a seperate set of proceedings could ensue. But at least she would be able to breath easy for now and her children could return to their mother.

Contact would not automatically be dealt with. Contact could be dealt with for Dad in any RO proceedings if he sought this, gps would have to seek leave to apply.

gizmo111

Ex parte Orders can be obtained in an emergency situation, which on the facts provided the op's friend has a strong case for. You are correct to state that ex parte orders are not favoured - this is partially because they are supposed to be reserved for emergency cases but some people try to use them to bypass the "regular" court application process.

You say a PSO and SI will not cover the whole situation, and you are correct. However, I would submit that it would appropriately deal with the immediate situation and get the children returned. She would then have the option to consider applying for a RO or IRO providing of course that the dispute over residence continues, and a seperate set of proceedings could ensue. But at least she would be able to breath easy for now and her children could return to their mother.

Contact would not automatically be dealt with. Contact could be dealt with for Dad in any RO proceedings if he sought this, gps would have to seek leave to apply.

Its not an emergency - kids have been wih grandparents for 3 weeks or so - ex-parte is nto approriate here.

Contact can be dealt with at an IRO hearng and very often is.
With 20 years of childcare social work under my belt - I have dealt with more of these cases than I could ever remember, and there will be many more I'm sure now that legal aid has been drastically reduced for private law disputes.

marywooyeah

gizmo111 wrote: »

Its not an emergency - kids have been wih grandparents for 3 weeks or so - ex-parte is nto approriate here.

Contact can be dealt with at an IRO hearng and very often is.
With 20 years of childcare social work under my belt - I have dealt with more of these cases than I could ever remember, and there will be many more I'm sure now that legal aid has been drastically reduced for private law disputes.

The children have been with the gps for 3 weeks with the mother's consent - it was only on Monday that the father issued her with an ultimatum and she now wants the children returned. This short period can constitute an emergency application because of the change in circumstances with the mother withdrawing her consent and opposing the placement with the gps.

If you re read my post, I said contact is not dealt with automatically, not that it could not be dealt with at all. It would only be dealt with if the issue is raised, and in any case it would only really deal with Dad's contact as the gps have no legal grounds for contact without leave of the court. In this circumstance an Interim Residence and Contact Order would be made, as opposed to just an IRO.

Well done on your length of service in the social work field, not many would dedicate such a long period of their lives to such work and you probably will find yourself dealing with much more s8 work than before due to the cuts.

LandyAndy

moneysaymoneydo wrote: »

I think there must be more to this story than meets the eye. Mother has PND yet leaves her house to move into a flat and leaves it 3 weeks before seeking advice re the kids being at the grandparents? surely you would at the solicitors at earliest convienience and police, Social Services etc. I am wondering if there has been a build up to husband leaving and taking kids i mean he would be really selfish if he was doing it for the sake of it and dumping it with his parents, maybe the OP if has PND could be giving him cause for concern.

Maybe the sister could go and live under the same bridge as the OP? :cool:

Mrs_Imp

I too am thinking that there may be more to this story. On the whole a father wouldn't remove such young children from the mother unless he was worried about their welfare (I said on the whole, so I understand there are some cases where this is not so).

If this father has a genuine concern, and he knows that he is not capable of caring for the children himself, then surely he has done the right thing by putting their children in a safe place?

Maybe he's done it to give her a wake up to the fact that she needs help for her PND because she's putting their children at risk.