Why do mobiles get blocked?

Herongull

Don't be put off selling. The people at risk are the buyers.

But be prepared to answer detailed questions from cautious buyers - see advice to buyers http://www.nmpcu.police.uk/buying/

There is also advice on the same page to trade buyers on what precautions to take. However there has been anecdotal evidence of people having problems with blocked phones bought from trade sellers of used phones.

nbc

Herongull wrote: »

I only know that there have been anecdotal reports on this forum and elsewhere indicating that sometimes/under some circumstances/some networks block a phone because of payments on the contract are missed.

This is despite the ownership of the phone transferring to the customer on day 1. This is presumably to discourage someone getting a contract phone and never making payments.

I don't know how frequently this happens (or indeed whether it still happens).

It is the IMEI code that the networks use to block phones regardless of what sim is in there.

Herongull

grumbler wrote: »

How? Networks 'register' their customers only.
So, are you saying that the phone can be sold only to another customer of the same network - because the network arrogated the right of 'registration' that for some mysterious reason now substitutes the general mechanism of legal ownership for mobile handsets only?
Required by whom? Is it some law or just some doubtful practice?

No. It appears that you can sell a phone (if you are the owner), but you remain the registered owner unless you advise the mobile company of the change in ownership.

This has the logical consequence that the registered owner and the legal owner can be two different people.

The mobile phone companies can only deal with the registered owner in relation to blocking and unblocking.

The mobile companies (at least T mobile does) that you let them know if you are selling your phone.

oopsadaisydoddle

grumbler wrote: »

How? Networks 'register' their customers only.
So, are you saying that the phone can be sold only to another customer of the same network - because the network arrogated the right of 'registration' that for some mysterious reason now substitutes the general mechanism of legal ownership for mobile handsets only?
Required by whom? Is it some law or just some doubtful practice?

Lordy be! Are you deliberately being argumentative for the sake of it?

I think the thread has already established that there isn't a system in place yet to 're register' customers, so asking Herongull 'how?' Is not going to give you the answer. I don't think Herongull has professed to being the person who is about to develop said system have they?!

No, the handset cannot just be sold to someone on the same network because phones can be unlocked. Again, we would still need some kind of system to allow the re registration of these devices.

They are required by their customers, with whom they have an agreement. Said agreement is the only one they are obliged to recognise (AFAIK). Not every customer (although most do) blacklist their phone when lost/stolen. As I said, most do, particularly if they need to claim.

grumbler

Herongull wrote: »

...This has the logical consequence that the registered owner and the legal owner can be two different people.

So, the 'registered' owner can easily brick the phone of the legal owner - and you call this 'logical'?!

The mobile companies (at least T mobile does) that you let them know if you are selling your phone.

And I guess they can give a 'registered' owner a confirmation that the phone was 'unregistered' so that the seller can give this document to the buyer as a proof .
Without such document what you say makes no sense as this 'letting know' doesn't have any consequences.

oopsadaisydoddle

To add, if there was some kind of system in place then registered owner and legal owner would be the same thing.

grumbler

oopsadaisydoddle wrote: »

Lordy be! Are you deliberately being argumentative for the sake of it?

Yes. At the very start I clearly said that "all this blocking malarkey is the greatest nonsense that creates problems, but doesn't benefit anybody." Some people here are trying to justify it or to make sense of it.

No, the handset cannot just be sold to someone on the same network because phones can be unlocked.

Unlocking has nothing to do with this. It's some 'registration', not locking that matters.

They are required by their customers, with whom they have an agreement.

The agreement doesn't say anything about blocking. And even if it did, this doesn't mean that it's a lawful thing to do. Are networks obliged to do everything that their customers 'require'?

Herongull

Grumbler,

I agree that the current system is a mess and has undesirable consequences like the registered owner being able to block and unblock phones after he has sold them on.

AFAIK Blocking (ie blacklisting a phone on the relevant database) is subject to regulations etc. It is regarded by the authorities as important in reducing the number of stolen phones. For example it is now illegal to try to change a phones IMEI or to even to have the equipment for doing this.

grumbler

This is something that I absolutely agree with.

What I don't agree with is considering this so called 'registration' as some lawful ground for bricking devices of legal owners.

Herongull

I don't agree with either, but it happens and that is why buying a phone from someone you don't know is a risk.

You have a claim against the seller if this happens, but what if the seller is difficult to contact?

This blacklisting and the relevant database, CEIR, seems to an industry regulation thing rather than something the companies do off their own bat.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006/jul/28/internetphonesbroadband.phones

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2006/jul/28/ringofsteel