LDK Security Group parking charge

suzyflo

Hi, I'm after some guidance please - My daughter parked in a car park managed by LDK, on going to purchase a ticket one machine was marked up "out of order, please use other machine" she went to the other machine and put in 2 x 50p coins for 1 hours parking, however, the machine would not accept one of the coins, despite several attempts it kept coming out into the coin tray, she had no other change, no change facilities nearby so therefore she was unable to buy a ticket, upon her return to the car she had a parking charge notice on the windscreen - £90 due within 28 days or a reduced amount of £60 if paid within 14 days. what would be her best course of action in these circumstances? The car park has several notices displayed with the terms of parking and yes she did park without a ticket but she had no facility available to buy one. Thanks in advance.

Stroma

I would appeal to them as they don't comply with the BPA code of practice if in England or Wales?? When it's refused you can go to https://www.popla.org.uk for an independent appeal. If in Scotland or NI ignore it completely. If your daughter doesn't want the bother of appealing etc just ignore them.

Guys_Dad

Good morning.

Your daughter's case is no different from anyone else on here, so I would advise reading a good few threads.

You will see that, apart from paying, there are two different routes.

The first is "ignore". This will result in a letter-chain similar to one of the chains in the sticky thread.

The second is to appeal through POPLA. To win there, you need to show procedural errors by the PPC. You have one already - the discount offered for prompt payment should be 40%, they are only offering 33.3%.

Decide which route you prefer. If POPLA, you will need to do some work, but we can help.

But do read up on some threads as all you need is readily available there.

suzyflo

Good Morning and thank you for your prompt responses, Stroma - we are in England. I have read a few threads but didn't find one that exactly fit her circumstances, hence my query. I have mentioned the "ignore" option to her but she isn't sure she is brave enough to do this, her first response was to get straight on the phone and pay it. Guy's dad, re the POPLA route what work would be involved, looking at other threads it would seem that an appeal to LDK will always be rejected.

Stroma

It's likely to be rejected, so the appeal to them would be a soft one like this, then get a harder appeal for popla

Name
Address

Date

Dear LDK,

I want to appeal your invoice xxxx at xxxx car park on the xx/xx/xxxx . Your pay and display machines were not working, so the the terms were not broken. I require you to cancel this invoice immediately if you reject my appeal I require a popla verification code within 35 days of the date of my original appeal, per the BPA code of practice.

I have no further information to provide to you, so consider this my final response to you.

Sincerely
Mrs Not a mug

Guys_Dad

Stroma wrote: »

It's likely to be rejected, so the appeal to them would be a soft one like this, then get a harder appeal for popla

Name
Address

Date

Dear LDK,

I want to appeal your invoice xxxx at xxxx car park on the xx/xx/xxxx . Your pay and display machines were not working, so the the terms were not broken. I looked for one of your attendants, but none were present. I require you to cancel this invoice immediately. If you reject my appeal, I require a popla verification code within 35 days of the date of my original this appeal, per the BPA code of practice.

I have no further information to provide to you and, so consider this my final response to you.

Sincerely
Mrs Not a mug

I've added a line to Stroma's letter. not that I think it will make any difference to the result, but makes a point.

In addition, do not fall for any other discussions with them, where they erode the 35 days. This is a ploy and must be avoided.

You asked about the work you would need to do. You need to prove that they either had no right to make a charge as their contract with the landowner didn't provide for that or that in some way they have failed in adhering to the BPA guidelines.

The BPA guidelines are here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/writ...ce_2013_v1.pdf Particularly appendices B and C points 9 (1-7)

Concentrate on the signage are and the wording that must be on it and the letters they send to you.

You should also look at the POPLA web site.

Now that looks a bit daunting, but it's not really.

You would need to show that they had failed to follow these or have no legal rights of occupancy to win at POPLA.

You can see why IGNORE is attractive to some..

suzyflo

Thank you, I've just been looking at the popla website and their grounds for appeal don't seem fit in with the circumstances, I'm tempted to try and persuade her to go down the ignore channel as by appealing and providing her full details would she not ultimately receive more hassle?

Guys_Dad

suzyflo wrote: »

Thank you, I've just been looking at the popla website and their grounds for appeal don't seem fit in with the circumstances, I'm tempted to try and persuade her to go down the ignore channel as by appealing and providing her full details would she not ultimately receive more hassle?

You are quite right about the grounds for appeal. POPLA work on the basis that PPC charges are fair, unless they haven't complied with the proper procedures.

It's the last bit of that sentence you can win on. Read the BPA COP link I sent you. In it you will find a bit about PPCs having to give a 40% discount for prompt settlement. Your PPC hasn't offered that. First mistake.

If they can make a basic mistake like that, then there will be others.

At the top of this forum is a very interesting sticky on POPLA decisions by Aaron AArdvark. Just read through them. Yes, some have been lost but see how the others have been won. Mistakes or inertia by the PPC.

There are other threads on here where the signage of the PPCs is non-compliant. POPLA will listen to those sort of submissions. These take precedence over the 4 reasons for appeal in the POPLA/BPA web sites.

I agree that one machine being out of action and the other rejecting payment on its own may not win a POPLA appeal. That's why you need failure on the PPC's procedures, including, of course, their paperwork that they send you. Wait for that and note all dates of events down. Timetable failures are also procedural mistakes that can win at POPLA.

And, of course, you have nothing to lose.

So, send off Stroma's letter when you get the notice from them through the post as a first step.

nigelbb

Ignoring their invoices is not as safe an option as it used to be. Previously they could only pursue the driver for their charges but now post 1st October 2012 they are able to pursue the registered keeper. They also seem to be getting more litigious.

I would add another another line to the letter & enclose a cheque for £1 as full & final settlement of their invoice. You after all did fail to pay the parking charge but only because it was impossible so offering to pay gives you the moral high ground and will be a great plus point for you if a proper court were ever to review the case.

I have become an instant expert on the private parking charges scam since getting one myself a few weeks ago & having followed MSE & PePiPoo every single case that I have seen the PPC is in breach of the BPA CoP in some way whether it's their signage, the Notice to Driver, the Notice to Keeper etc That's even before asking them to prove that they even have the right to charge or pursue you through the courts for that charge. In your particular case they are contravening the CoP by not offering 40% discount for prompt payment so if they can ignore such a simple basic point you can be sure that they have slipped up in other ways.

suzyflo

Thank you Stroma, Guy's dad and Nigelbb, I am becoming boggle eyed with reading rules & regulations on the BPA site! Guy's dad the link didn't work but I managed to find the info, thanks for letting me know about it. Nigelbb that seems like a good idea offering the £1 after all she was perfectly willing to pay it had she been able to, just a point though, have been to the car park today to check out the signage and note that the out of order machine is indeed still out of order 4 days later, on the machine a sign says "if this machine is out of order please ring 0845 3058 122" so how would we stand with this? LDK seem to be assuming that everyone will have access to a phone at the point they find the machine out of order, this will not always be the case.

nigelbb

suzyflo wrote: »

Thank you Stroma, Guy's dad and Nigelbb, I am becoming boggle eyed with reading rules & regulations on the BPA site! Guy's dad the link didn't work but I managed to find the info, thanks for letting me know about it. Nigelbb that seems like a good idea offering the £1 after all she was perfectly willing to pay it had she been able to, just a point though, have been to the car park today to check out the signage and note that the out of order machine is indeed still out of order 4 days later, on the machine a sign says "if this machine is out of order please ring 0845 3058 122" so how would we stand with this? LDK seem to be assuming that everyone will have access to a phone at the point they find the machine out of order, this will not always be the case.

They also are inviting you to call a non-geographic number from your mobile phone which will be charged at 25-30p/minute. Have you tried calling 0845 3058 122? (not from your mobile obviously:-) Is the sign new since the other day?