Unfair call out charge?

Phantomwheelspinner

Hello. I recently paid a local heating company £80 to do a gas boiler service. Following the service, the mid valve (next to the water tank in the upstairs bedroom) started making a very loud whining noise every time the hot water switches on. The noise frightens the life out of my young daughter who sleeps in the room so I informed the company about the problem. I explained that the loud noise only started occuring since their service.

The company telephonist replied to my email by telephone. She understood my "complaint" and said she would arrange for the engineer to come out again and take a look. There was absolutely no mention that there might be ANY call out / investigation charge. The engineer came out last week and was here less than 10 minutes. He confirmed it was the mid valve and that he could supply and fit a new one for about £140. When he told me this, I said I might take the plunge and buy a new combi boiler instead (our current boiler is over 20 years old), so I said I would speak to my wife about it when she was back later. Again, there was NO mention whatsoever from the engineer that there would be any charge for his visit.

Then today, out of the blue, an invoice suddenly arrives for £56!!!! I rang the company and reminded them of my original complaint and that neither the telephonist nor the engineer mentioned anything at all that there might be a call out charge. The engineer called me this afternoon and explained that the fault was nothing to do with the service (who knows, seems a coincidence how the problem only started after the service?) and that the mid valve can go faulty at any time. Hence they sent the invoice, he says. I suspect they know it's unfair as the engineer has already offered to reduce the bill down to £35.

Given the circumstances of my original complaint, am I being unreasonable by saying they have treated me in an underhand manner and haven't been upfront with me? The initial visit couldn't have been more different - for the initial visit I was given a proper quote beforehand over the phone and the engineer obviously expected payment before he left. The idea of charging for this second visit (albeit 5 minutes!) certainly seems like it was an afterthought. Their website also states that "Strysen provide free of charge quotations tailored to suit individual requirements..." Yet there was never any quote / mention of this second callout charge. Many thanks for any advice.

nickj_2

you've had your boiler serviced and something else has gone wrong not connected to the boiler , they have come round diagnosedthe fault which you requested and they have invoiced you for the time and diagnosis ,
i can't actually see what you are complaining about , how can they give you a quote for something that requires looking into , it might be a ten minute job or it might be a days worth , they have found what the fault is and give you a quote for the work to be carried out . who do you think should pay for this ?

so in answer to your question .. yes you are being unreasonable , they are being generous to say the least by knocking a bit off , most plumbers i know charge £50 -60 for a call out ,

Phantomwheelspinner

Take your point nickj. However, I can't say I was impressed by the engineers workmanship, I can't prove it but it's certainly strange how the problem started immediately after he left and had never existed before. Furthermore I noticed that the Citizens Advice Bureau states this is not best practice:

It would be good practice for the plumber to make it clear they are charging you for the visit and that this is separate from any work they may or may not do. Ideally, they should tell you this before they come out to you, and tell you how much the call-out charge will be.

I can only echo what CAB states as it would be so much nicer if they had been more upfront. I wouldn't dream of treating my own business clients in this way, especially if I want them to keep coming back to me...

OldFartPlumber

Phantomwheelspinner wrote: »

Take your point nickj. However, I can't say I was impressed by the engineers workmanship, I can't prove it but it's certainly strange how the problem started immediately after he left and had never existed before. ...

Pure coincidence - the guy serviced the boiler - they don`t look @ ancilliary controls . That`s the way it is now. Don`t be tempted by a new boiler - they`re full of computer electronics . I wouldn`t want to try and fix them for a living - I stopped doing gas work as soon as CORGI came into being , back in the day . Now , as a generalisation you`ll find boiler engineers who haven`t a clue about systems and plumbing - and old plumbers who don`t know about boilers even if they are Gas Safe registered

sniggings

no you are not being unreasonable, the call out charge needs to be clearly stated before there is an agreement for you to pay it, if it is not stated then an agreement can not be made, so they do not have a contract, so can not enforce one, this is a very simple case, tell them to prove you had an agreement with them to pay a set call out fee and if they can do that you will be more than happy to pay it.

Phantomwheelspinner

Thanks very much for your replies. That's exactly what I thought Sniggins - there was never any mention at all of a fee, so I can't see how they could expect me to pay when this hadn't been discussed, let alone agreed.

vaio

on the other hand you surely can't be suggesting that engineers turn up at your house and diagnose problems for free?

The fact that you asked them to your house would be held to include an assumption that you accept liability for paying their reasonable charges.

sniggings

vaio wrote: »

on the other hand you surely can't be suggesting that engineers turn up at your house and diagnose problems for free?

The fact that you asked them to your house would be held to include an assumption that you accept liability for paying their reasonable charges.

Not when some offer free quotes, you could also say, as no fee was mentioned, it would be reasonable for the OP to think it was a free quote or a checkup on the previous work that was carried out and paid for.

Contract law is very straight forward, for a contract to exist, an offer has to be made and then accepted, no offer was made, what's reasonable has nothing to do with it, as your reasonable and my reasonable, as shown in this thread could be argued about all day long.

keystone

sniggings wrote: »

it would be reasonable for the OP to think it was .................. a checkup on the previous work that was carried out and paid for.

That indeed would be reasonable and it would seem from OPs stance that such is exactly what they thought even given the slightly rash assumption that it WAS connected. IMO the company is at fault for not saying "but please understand if it turns out to be nothing related to the work we did there will be a call out charge of £x".

Cheers

vaio

yep, but I'd still say that in the absence of any call out charge being mentioned the default would be reasonable charges need to be paid.

from http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/nireland/consumer_ni/consumer_builders_and_home_improvements_e/consumer_problems_with_cost_e/paying_call-out_charges_for_building_work_and_other_repairs.htm

......If the trader didn't tell you there would be a call-out charge, or didn't tell you how much it would be, they can only charge you a reasonable amount......

sniggings

vaio wrote: »

yep, but I'd still say that in the absence of any call out charge being mentioned the default would be reasonable charges need to be paid.

from http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/nireland/consumer_ni/consumer_builders_and_home_improvements_e/consumer_problems_with_cost_e/paying_call-out_charges_for_building_work_and_other_repairs.htm

reading the full link and not just what you have pasted here, it clearly says, if you can not agree a fee, then court would decide, given that the OP caledl them out based on work they already did, I would not think a new call out charge could be claimed, without first making it clear to the OP, also as the Op said their site also states free quotes, so as said, why would it be unreasonable for the Op to think that a reasonable fee in this case would be free. The court may come to the same conclusion.

I agree, that a standard call out, you most likely would be expecting to pay a fee, but this was not a normal call out.