leaving children on their own?

poet123

FBaby wrote: »

That's all very well getting into the rhetoric of risk assessment but that changes nothing to what I say. Since you love evidence so much, here is some:

For infants, suffocation led to more than 80 percent of injury-related deaths, with motor vehicle crashes being the next leading cause of injury-related death in 2008. For children ages 1 to 4, the leading cause of injury-related death was drowning. For children ages 5 to 14, motor vehicle-related injuries were the leading cause of unintentional injury-related death.

Source: safekids.org

So again, knowing that children are most at risk of death from a motor vehicle related injuries, why would anyone drive their children anywhere out of choice?

(and yes, I know it is an american study, but surely you're not going to come up with a theory as to why it doesn't apply in Britain? )

How risks are assessed is really not rhetoric, it is a mathematical construct based on real calculations. But, of course, you know that, it simply doesn't suit your argument to accept it.;)

This was what you said:

"Statistics are quite clear that a mature 9 year old is less likely to experience an accident alone at home than a 12 yo walking to school."

Do you really think (impartially speaking) that you have addressed that very specific statement and very specific claim with the above comments? Note, not stats, comments.

Firstly, the comments don't refer in any way to your statement. Secondly, we are discussing various issues/accidents that can befall a child home alone, not specifically death .

Finally, you previously stated that the stats clearly showed that what you hypothesised was true.

I think we can see that no such stats exist American/UK or otherwise. It really does nothing to bolster your argument to make statements that cannot be supported. It is your opinion, not fact, be honest enough to acknowledge that.

I understand that you really believe what you say is true, but there is no evidence to directly support that. How could there be? How many parents would openly admit to the authorities that their young child was alone when they cut their finger, fell downstairs, was bitten by the dog, tripped over the rug, slipped on the kitchen floor, drank a bottle of spirits, etc, etc?

This is an interesting document:

http://www.rospa.com/homesafety/adviceandinformation/childsafety/accidents-to-children.aspx

This is part of the document: My bold.

When do accidents happen?

• Most happen between late afternoon and early evening, in the summer, during school holidays and at weekends
• Factors such as stress, death in the family, chronic illness, homelessness or moving home increase the likelihood of the child having an accident
• Some happen when the usual routine is changed or when people are in a hurry
• Distractions and inadequate supervision are often the cause of accidents
• Poor housing and overcrowded conditions lead to increased numbers of accidents
• Some accidents are caused by lack of familiarity with surroundings, for example, when visiting friends or relatives, or in holiday accommodation.

Why do children have accidents?

Because children are often absorbed in their own immediate interests they can be oblivious to their surroundings. They only have a limited perception of the environment because of their lack of experience or development. They are not aware of the consequences of the many new situations that they encounter daily.

It gos on to say:

Small stature

This may prevent a child from seeing above an obstruction or being seen by an adult.
Inquisitiveness

Curiosity and a spirit of adventure may lead a child into danger.
Bravado and horseplay

Boys are particularly prone to showing off and over reaching their abilities, especially among friends. Many accidents are caused by horseplay involving pushing, shoving and wrestling.
Stress

Tensions at home and emotional upsets caused by temper, jealousy and over excitement may cause a child to run blindly into danger. Such action may even be deliberate to seek attention.
Inexperience

A child’s interpretation of a situation may be inaccurate and adults looking after small children should be aware not to expect too much of them.
Inadequate supervision

Children need constant supervision. Medicines, pills and toxic substances should be locked away and fires and stairs should be guarded.




I think the above is more evidential than anything you have offered, but if you can substantiate your claims with actual evidence I am open to be persuaded.

valk_scot

Gawdsake, is this still running? There must be better things to do in life...scrubbing the kitchen floor, unpicking socks, cleaning the grouting with a toothbrush. All far more fun and productive, no?

poet123

jellyhead wrote: »

So, can I ask all of you at what age you would leave a child unsupervised in the bath, for more than a few seconds. I added that few seconds bit because some might not think that nipping to fetch their pyjamas while they are in earshot and you'll be back in the room with their pyjamas within seconds counts as unsupervised.

School age for me, and even then I would only pop out as you describe, not leave for any length of time.

conradmum

The next part of Poet's quoted link reads:

Safety and child development

Children differ in their rate of development but the information below is a guide to development stages:

Age Development Advice
0-6 months Wriggle and kick, grasp, suck, roll over. Do not leave on a raised surface.
6mths-1 yr Stand, sit, crawl, put things in mouth. Keep small objects and dangerous substances out of reach
1-2 years Move about, reach things high up, and find hidden objects, walk, and climb. Never leave alone, place hot drinks out of reach, use a fireguard and stairgates
2-3 years Be adventurous, climb higher, pull and twist things, watch and copy. Be a good role model and be watchful. Place matches and lighters out of sight and reach.
3-4 years Use grown-up things, be helpful, understand instructions, be adventurous, explore, walk downstairs alone. Continue to be a good role model, keep being watchful but start safety training.
4-5 years Play exciting games, can be independent, ride a bike, enjoy stories They can actually plan to do things and carry it out. Rules are very important to them, as long as everybody keeps to the same ones. They enjoy learning. Continue safety training.
5-8 years Will be subject to peer pressure and will still forget things. Still need supervision, guidance and support.

Apparently the need for supervision stops at the age of 8, according to this guidance.

poet123

conradmum wrote: »

Apparently the need for supervision stops at the age of 8, according to this guidance.

It then goes on to say:

General safety advice

• Children should be supervised at all times

So, unless you contend childhood ceases at eight that is not meant to imply the need for supervision stops at the age of eight.

Dunroamin

poet123 wrote: »

It then goes on to say:

General safety advice

• Children should be supervised at all times

So, unless you contend childhood ceases at eight that is not meant to imply the need for supervision stops at the age of eight.

Aren't 12 year olds children and should they be supervised at all times?

poet123

Dunroamin wrote: »

Aren't 12 year olds children and should they be supervised at all times?

That could be the implication. The article mentions accidents to children up to 15.

This is clearer advice from a legal standpoint:

http://www.childrenslegalcentre.com/userfiles/Home%20Alone.pdf

It is an offence to leave a child at home alone if doing so puts them at risk.



The Children's Legal Centre is a unique,
independent national charity concerned
with law and policy affecting children and
young people.

This information is correct at the time of writing [March 2012] The law in this area is subject to change. The Coram Children
’s
Legal Centre cannot be held responsible if
changes to the law outdate this publication.

Individuals may photocopy information in CLC publications for their personal use. Professionals, organisations and institutio
ns
must obtain permission from the CLC to photocopy
our publications in full or in part.

What age can I leave my child at home on their own?

Parents often wonder when it is safe to leave a child unsupervised at
home. The law does not specify an age when a child can be left at home
alone. However, parents commit an offence if leaving the child at home
alone puts him or her at risk.

The Children’s Legal Centre advise that most children under the age of
13 should not be left at home alone. Even a short period of time on
their own can be distressing and lonely for a child, most children under
13 years of age would not be able to cope with an emergency

MrsE_2

While I can totally understand the children's centre saying a child should not be left alone under 13, what I cannot understand is children under this age who are not allowed to stay home alone but are allowed outside alone.
I would consider (& I think it's reasonable) that a child is in far more danger outside alone from all sorts than they are in their own home.

FBaby

Poet, you totally missed my point again. The reason for my providing 'evidence' was purely to substantiate the point that people take risk every day taking their kids in their car, and that is often by choice rather than necessity, which is where the thread had evolved to.

We had reached an consensus that the decision to leave a 9 yo alone came down to the level of risk parents are prepared to take. You then went on to say that there was a difference between taking risk out of necessity rather than choice. I have now given you something that says that the highest cause of death in children 5 to 14 is car accident, yet how often do anyone take the decision to minimize how often they take their kids in the car to reduce the risk?

My point is that many decisions we make about our children is often perceived risk rather than actual. Becoming a parent comes naturally with a huge sense of protectiveness. I remember when the pediatrician checked my daughter's hips after she was born and my baby started to cry, I felt an overwhelming urge to smack her! I was completely taken aback by the intensity of the feeling.

The reality is that we naturally perceive our children in more danger when they are away from us because we are not there to protect them. Hence assuming that children are more in danger alone at home then with us in a car.

I remember the first time I put my children in the train on their own. When the door closed, I felt the urge to ask the guard to open it for me as it felt all wrong that the train was about to go with my kids in and me out. It felt like the worry I had when they were little getting on the tube. I had to remind myself that they were now ready to do these things without me, and that strangely, they were safer on the train than if I'd driven them there. After a couple of times, it became normal and I now don't think twice about them going on the train.

This is why I said previously that I believe the decision to leave a child alone at home is much more about the parent then the child, that of course assuming they have been assessed as mature enough to do so.

emsywoo123

Please for the love of God can someone make this thread stop. :eek: