Cleaning the house after tenancy - issue with lettings agent

damianjamesmcgrath

ognum wrote: »

Can you go in an read it in their office, take your phone or iPad and photograph it!

They have said it costs £25 for them to make this available, either to print out, or for me to photocopy.

I've no idea where £25 comes from!

newsgroup_monkey

ognum wrote: »

what does your tenancy agreement say?

For one letting agency that I use the letting agreement states the house will be professionally cleaned before you move in and the cost of a professional clean when you leave is £x.

This is clear in the agreement, the tenant does not need to clean one thing because they have agreed to a professional clean when they leave.

I'm pretty sure G_M will have a view on this.

It's an unfair clause IMHO. I'm more than capable of cleaning as well as any professional cleaner (define professional cleaner*)

It's another "fee" in my eyes. They have a kickback with a cleaning service in the same way that my LAs tried to force me into signing a contract with Southern Electric for my utilities.

*I say professional cleaner because most cleaners are not members of a professional body or group. They are simply people who earn a living from cleaning. That doesn't make them a professional by definition.

ognum

newsgroup_monkey wrote: »

I'm pretty sure G_M will have a view on this.

It's an unfair clause IMHO. I'm more than capable of cleaning as well as any professional cleaner (define professional cleaner*)

It's another "fee" in my eyes. They have a kickback with a cleaning service in the same way that my LAs tried to force me into signing a contract with Southern Electric for my utilities.

*I say professional cleaner because most cleaners are not members of a professional body or group. They are simply people who earn a living from cleaning. That doesn't make them a professional by definition.

I would be pleased to hear G-Ms view on this, he always has valuable advice.

I am only stating what the situation is with some properties I let and I have actually had no feedback that it upsets tenants, they are pleased to know there obligations, pack up their stuff and leave without having to do any cleaning.

It works fine, as I said if they wanted to get other cleaners in and they cleaned to the same standard that is fine too.

moromir

"You didn’t return a signed copy to us after move in so we would deem that you accepted the comments made.
They cannot 'deem' that.
Please bear in mind that the property had been redecorated throughout with new carpets and a professional clean before move in.
If they have evidence of this (eg invoices from decorators /carpet shop) that would be enough proof - the inventory would not be needed. Do you agree the decoration/carpets WERE brand new?

I would query your position on 'they cannot 'deem' that'. Did the agent send any follow up letters asking after the inventory etc? Did they send a further letter confirming that the inventory was now accepted?

I used to work on some commercial lets which had inventory of the contents - we had a clause in the lease pointing out the requirement to return the inventory, what would happen if it didnt (subsequent letter and then third letter saying deem it accepted) and that subsequent paper trail was deemed satisfactory by the courts as the commercial tenants wrecked the walls with fittings etc and had to pay the cost of reinstating it.

I don't think its as cut and dry as GM says or else every tenant would have their landlord over a barrell by refusing to return the inventory!

damianjamesmcgrath

moromir wrote: »

I would query your position on 'they cannot 'deem' that'. Did the agent send any follow up letters asking after the inventory etc? Did they send a further letter confirming that the inventory was now accepted?

I used to work on some commercial lets which had inventory of the contents - we had a clause in the lease pointing out the requirement to return the inventory, what would happen if it didnt (subsequent letter and then third letter saying deem it accepted) and that subsequent paper trail was deemed satisfactory by the courts as the commercial tenants wrecked the walls with fittings etc and had to pay the cost of reinstating it.

I don't think its as cut and dry as GM says or else every tenant would have their landlord over a barrell by refusing to return the inventory!

The inventory was not returned to the agents as we forgot about it. They did not ever chase, remind, warn or contact us in any way regarding it.

moromir

Does the tenancy agreement make any mention? Ie if we dont get the inventory back in x days its deemed correct?

damianjamesmcgrath

moromir wrote: »

Does the tenancy agreement make any mention? Ie if we dont get the inventory back in x days its deemed correct?

The tenancy agreement isn't something I have, unfortunately, I must have misplaced it. I have asked for a copy, but they want to charge me for this - £25 + VAT, so £30 in total, which seems excessive for 1 document which they could email to save on print costs.

sham63

This thread serves as a quick reminder for anyone new to being a tenant - take loads of photos when you move in and loads when you move out.

If you need to defend a deposit dispute it will be based on evidence.

I had to dispute a claim (DPS) recently where the Landlord wanted £300 for gardening. Luckily I had detailed photos showing the garden when we moved in and when we left. We won the case and the adjudicator stated that his decision was purely evidence-based, because we could clearly show that the garden was in good condition on the day we left and was not 'overgrown with weeds' as the Landlord claimed!

damianjamesmcgrath

Who needs to provide evidence?

For example, I have no evidence regarding the condition of the house when I moved in or moved out, but neither do the lettings agents, considering I didn't sign the inventory.

No evidence vs. no evidence = who wins?

DaftyDuck

Well, they might have evidence.. a receipt from a professional cleaning organisation, the bill from the painter & decorator, the carpet bill and photographs... or they may not.

You have stated that it was newly decorated and newly carpeted when you moved in. I'd have to say that given that, as a landlord, I'd expect more than the standard clean with a hoover. You can't expect them to have the place redecorated and recarpeted but not then "professionally" clean on leaving.

They've been fairly specific about what needed doing, so I suspect they may (may) be in the right here.

I have two places for rent next to each other. One is done up to the nines, expensive carpets and furniture, and I'd certainly expect it to be left immaculate and undamaged, as it is always handed out as clean as possible. The other is a bungalow that has tenants with dogs & cats (and horses), and they welcome the fact it is clean but certainly not immaculate when they move in. If they leave that place reasonably tidy on leaving, I'm grateful. I stick new but very cheap carpet in each time it changes hands, and am honest that I expect to do the same on their departure, and I won't be charging them for that!

In your case, it sounds like considerable work went into the property before you moved in. You acknowledge it wasn't left in a completely clean state, and it sounds like the deductions being made are reasonable.