Business receipts and 'private sales'

melliott1963

I hate to come across as uncaring about your situation, but whether it was convenient or not when he delivered it, surely with the amount of money you (presumably) spent on the item, if it had been me, I would have made sure that it was what I thought it was before parting with my money, even if it meant not being ready for my visitors. He even offered to spend a few minutes letting you set it up so it's not as if he dumped it quickly and fled with your money.

I don't know much about Macs, but does the PC have the model number on it? if so, it wouldn't have taken very long to check (as you have since done) that it was the right PC. Or when you say box, do you mean that he's actually swapped the insides of the Mac case?

Finally, whilst he's a registered business seller on eBay, is he actually a registered business? If not then I'm not sure how much small claims would be able to help. I also understand that, even if it does go to small claims and they rule in your favour, there's no guarantee that you'll see your money.

Sorry if this comes across very negative, but I fear it may turn out to be a very expensive lesson for you.

bxboards

JoeSaponic wrote: »

I didn't know Lion had to be downloaded! Thank you for that. Even more reason to suspect him as he obviously made it up to appease me. Initially I asked for a refund because, as you say, I thought I could simply change my mind within 7 working days of purchase, forgetting this was concluded in person and outside eBay. However I then discovered it had the wrong OS installed. Last night I found out something even worse: this was a 2008 single processor Mac in a 2010 Westmere, twin-processor box. I think that's my main reason for requesting a refund just changed.

By the way if this goes to small claims does anyone know if I'd be compelled to attend the hearing? I'm disabled. Just getting beyond the front door isn't easy. Separate thread really I suppose but it's related so I'd appreciate knowing if anyone can tell me. Thanks.

Can you put up the item listing number - even if the listing was removed, it will still be on the system. You will be able to find it via Ebay as the item number will be attached to any messages. It would be worth saving a copy of this.

It would be useful to see the listing if possible.

From what you have said here, it sounds as if you have been conned, and the item switched. It would be very useful to see the listing, and I would also advise you take a copy your end (from your web browser go to File then Save Page).

If you have been given a different machine to the one on your listing, then this becomes an issue of fraud, and I'd go down that route as opposed to a cival Small Claims.

JoeSaponic

melliott1963 wrote: »

I hate to come across as uncaring about your situation, but whether it was convenient or not when he delivered it, surely with the amount of money you (presumably) spent on the item, if it had been me, I would have made sure that it was what I thought it was before parting with my money, even if it meant not being ready for my visitors. He even offered to spend a few minutes letting you set it up so it's not as if he dumped it quickly and fled with your money.

I don't know much about Macs, but does the PC have the model number on it? if so, it wouldn't have taken very long to check (as you have since done) that it was the right PC. Or when you say box, do you mean that he's actually swapped the insides of the Mac case?

Finally, whilst he's a registered business seller on eBay, is he actually a registered business? If not then I'm not sure how much small claims would be able to help. I also understand that, even if it does go to small claims and they rule in your favour, there's no guarantee that you'll see your money.

Sorry if this comes across very negative, but I fear it may turn out to be a very expensive lesson for you.

If you read the post you'll see it isn't confined to a matter of an OS 'not as described', something you can tell fairly quickly, but of the model itself not tallying with the sales page. On Macs the various serial and EMC numbers are given on the box. There would be no reason to suspect a dodge of this nature, and no incentive to check for a comparison because what Apple put on the box for identification is confined, on the machine, to the most inaccessible parts of it [you need a magnifying glass and torch believe me]. Of course simply booting it up would have revealed the wrong Operating System, which would have sent him packing anyway [without my having uncovered the full extent of the deception], and you can certainly make the argument you make here, but then all of us are fallible. As to the outcome you could well be right. Thank you for your reply.

melliott1963

bxboards wrote: »

If you have been given a different machine to the one on your listing, then this becomes an issue of fraud, and I'd go down that route as opposed to a cival Small Claims.

I agree that this may well be fraud. However, as the sale took place away from ebay, what proof does the OP have that the listing that was on Ebay relates to the Mac that they actually purchased? Even if the original negotiation was done via the contact the seller option so that there's a record, the seller could well turn round and argue that the buyer decided to go for a cheaper option and they sorted it out privately?

So at the end of the day it will just be one person's word against the other. Unfortunately, as the buyer had a chance to examine the item before the money changed hands, I think this will weaken their case.

Can I add that, despite my negative outlook, I do have sympathy for the OP, and hate seeing people ripped off.

JoeSaponic

bxboards wrote: »

Can you put up the item listing number - even if the listing was removed, it will still be on the system. You will be able to find it via Ebay as the item number will be attached to any messages. It would be worth saving a copy of this.

It would be useful to see the listing if possible.

From what you have said here, it sounds as if you have been conned, and the item switched. It would be very useful to see the listing, and I would also advise you take a copy your end (from your web browser go to File then Save Page).

If you have been given a different machine to the one on your listing, then this becomes an issue of fraud, and I'd go down that route as opposed to a cival Small Claims.

I've decided not to supply eBay details. You never know who's looking in. I'm grateful for your suggestion regarding fraud. I wondered this myself. When does a 'civil matter' become Criminal Deception?

bxboards

melliott1963 wrote: »

So at the end of the day it will just be one person's word against the other

It's not though, as the Ebay page offers evidence of the item that was for sale.

It's not a 'he said, she said' thing in this instance. Which is why I'd like to see the item listing ID.

The buyer contacted the seller via the listing. The listing gives a description of the item for sale. The listing was then closed to sell to the buyer.

The seller on the balance of probabilities would have difficult job trying to claim the buyer was buying a different item, given the communication trail via Ebay.

As a business seller, the buyer has all the odds stacked in their favour should this proceed to legalities, but any decent business seller would not simply wash their hands out of situation.

We can advise further once the poster shares the listing ID. I'd like to read the auction listing spec, and see if this is a bin or auction for starters.

bxboards

JoeSaponic wrote: »

I've decided not to supply eBay details. You never know who's looking in. I'm grateful for your suggestion regarding fraud. I wondered this myself. When does a 'civil matter' become Criminal Deception?

I've seen the listing. And also saved a copy.

Could you give the spec of the machine you did receive?

I can tell you right now, this seller is selling a LOT of Apple items. This is absolutely a business sale, not a private sale.

Do make sure you also save a copy of that listing. Also retain a copy of all the other listings for Apple stuff, if the seller keeps trying to say this is a private sale.

techspec

bxboards wrote: »

It's not though, as the Ebay page offers evidence of the item that was for sale.

It's not a 'he said, she said' thing in this instance. Which is why I'd like to see the item listing ID.

The buyer contacted the seller via the listing. The listing gives a description of the item for sale. The listing was then closed to sell to the buyer.

The seller on the balance of probabilities would have difficult job trying to claim the buyer was buying a different item, given the communication trail via Ebay.

As a business seller, the buyer has all the odds stacked in their favour should this proceed to legalities, but any decent business seller would not simply wash their hands out of situation.

We can advise further once the poster shares the listing ID. I'd like to read the auction listing spec, and see if this is a bin or auction for starters.

How do we know thats the PC the buyer agreed to buy?

Buyer thought he was being clever dealing outside of Ebay - and got stung.

bxboards

techspec wrote: »

How do we know thats the PC the buyer agreed to buy?

Buyer thought he was being clever dealing outside of Ebay - and got stung.

The seller had no other Apple Mac items for sale, or ended any other Apple Mac listings.

So there is no confusion about what was bought - the buyer and seller have exchanged e-mails via Ebay on a particular listing, and the seller only had one Apple Mac listing.

That is why I wanted to see the listing - I've checked the sellers previous sales to see he was selling any either items that might have caused confusion.

Because this was 'off Ebay' doesn't somehow magically make this all OK..

bxboards

More digging - JoeSaponic - go to 'About this Mac' on the machine you have and check the serial number - are the last 4 digits of the serial number SH2P?

(you don't need to write the s/n here, just a 'yes' or 'no' to this will suffice)