Business receipts and 'private sales'

JoeSaponic

I agreed a price with a registered business seller on eBay for a Mac Pro [a desktop computer ]. The seller took the page down rather than let me use BIN [I don’t know whether this was deliberate; I went along only to realize later my mistake, and that eBay can now do nothing on my behalf]. He delivered the computer to my home the same evening as it was the only time convenient to him.

He offered to let me set it up but by contrast this wasn't really convenient for me [I was expecting visitors]. I paid cash. He issued a business receipt and left.

I never got chance to run the thing until later as it happens, and distracted by unexpected financial problems I requested a refund within the 7 working day rule as I understood it. He refused.

This, he said, was a private sale, not an eBay sale. We’d agreed a price over the internet but cash hadn’t changed hands until we were face-to-face. The DSRs didn’t apply. Furthermore he could offer whatever returns conditions he wanted. He emphasized repeatedly thereafter that he would accept returns on only two conditions: items misdescribed and those which were faulty.

I finally set the machine up after almost a week, running it for about 45 minutes. Everything seemed in order except for one detail – it was the wrong Operating System. I’d been looking to future-proof with a newer model and newer Operating System, which this offered. The sales page clearly gives the OS as ’10.7 Lion’. What I got was 10.6.4 [Snow Leopard].

The seller's response to my email claiming he’d misdescribed the item was to [a] insist he'd included a Lion OS DVD [he hadn't, and anyway I did not pay to install it myself] and proceed to make firewood of his own returns policy.

Now he's claiming it was ‘sold as seen’, and that I should have inspected it when he gave me the chance. Ebay advise me to check with the police in case of fraud, but Apple serial numbers only tell you about warranty and repairs, and this chap is unperturbed. He says he’s legitimate and isn’t worried about running background checks since private sales are ‘civil matters’ [the implication being he can’t be touched].

Can a business seller issue you with a company receipt and still call it a ‘private sale’?

Many thanks for your help

lindseykim13

Yyour only option is small claims court i'm afraid, if you have his name and address. I'd suggest sending a letter before action.

JoeSaponic

lindseykim13 wrote: »

Yyour only option is small claims court i'm afraid, if you have his name and address. I'd suggest sending a letter before action.

Oddly enough yes, I have his address and even his mobile number, which he includes with some emails. Unfortunately I'm housebound and disabled.

Macs have to be taken to a designated Apple repairs business. I can't do that. Furthermore most 'Mr Fixit' computer repairs people, who visit on-site, are Windows specialists. They won't touch Macs as a rule. I was 'future-proofing' with a second desktop to insure against a disaster with the older Mac I run all ready. I wanted to avoid being left without an internet connection and also steer clear of enforced, stressful excursions into the outside world.

I'm grateful for your help lindseykim:

[1] Are you quite certain this is the legal position?
[2] When you say 'letter' you mean formally, in writing, rather than just an email [we've exchanged a dozen and more of those]?
[3] Is the case strong enough to be successful in a small claims court?

Bailey101

Upgrading the os is really easy- you won't need a professional to do it for you. Mountain lion is £13 from the App Store, could you ask the seller to refund that amount and download it (computer specs allowing)?

JoeSaponic

Bailey101 wrote: »

Upgrading the os is really easy- you won't need a professional to do it for you. Mountain lion is £13 from the App Store, could you ask the seller to refund that amount and download it (computer specs allowing)?

Thanks for the suggestion, Bailey101. The computer was sold to me as running Lion when it's got Snow Leopard installed. Mountain Lion was never actually part of the equation. My position is that he misdescribed it and by his own Terms and Conditions should refund me. I didn't pay to install anything. The money I parted with was for the convenience of not having to. I doubt this kind of compromise is possible now anyway. Thanks again for trying to help.

JoeSaponic

I've now discovered it's an old machine in a new box.

techspec

DSR's won't apply - as your were present at the time of the sale.

bxboards

JoeSaponic wrote: »

The sales page clearly gives the OS as ’10.7 Lion’. What I got was 10.6.4 [Snow Leopard].

The seller's response to my email claiming he’d misdescribed the item was to [a] insist he'd included a Lion OS DVD [he hadn't, and anyway I did not pay to install it myself]

Lion does not come on DVD - it is downloadable directly from Apple, or it can be purchased on a USB key, so if any DVD was included, this would be a copy.

I am not sure if Distance Selling Regulations apply - initially you negociated this unseen at a distance. However was this an auction, because auctions are not covered under DSR.

I think you have a very good case for a refund, but you mention financial problems - is this it real reason for requesting the refund? If this is under Distance Selling Regulations, you can return for ANY reason within 7 working days of delivery even if the item was as described.

soolin

JoeSaponic wrote: »

Oddly enough yes, I have his address and even his mobile number, which he includes with some emails. Unfortunately I'm housebound and disabled.

Macs have to be taken to a designated Apple repairs business. I can't do that. Furthermore most 'Mr Fixit' computer repairs people, who visit on-site, are Windows specialists. They won't touch Macs as a rule. I was 'future-proofing' with a second desktop to insure against a disaster with the older Mac I run all ready. I wanted to avoid being left without an internet connection and also steer clear of enforced, stressful excursions into the outside world.

I'm grateful for your help lindseykim:

[1] Are you quite certain this is the legal position?
[2] When you say 'letter' you mean formally, in writing, rather than just an email [we've exchanged a dozen and more of those]?
[3] Is the case strong enough to be successful in a small claims court?

Can I just mention that if you want a formal legal opinion it is best to contact a solicitor to ask. Some do a free 30 minute consultation if you want to be sure.

JoeSaponic

soolin wrote: »

Can I just mention that if you want a formal legal opinion it is best to contact a solicitor to ask. Some do a free 30 minute consultation if you want to be sure.

Thank you very much.

JoeSaponic

bxboards wrote: »

Lion does not come on DVD - it is downloadable directly from Apple, or it can be purchased on a USB key, so if any DVD was included, this would be a copy.

I am not sure if Distance Selling Regulations apply - initially you negociated this unseen at a distance. However was this an auction, because auctions are not covered under DSR.

I think you have a very good case for a refund, but you mention financial problems - is this it real reason for requesting the refund? If this is under Distance Selling Regulations, you can return for ANY reason within 7 working days of delivery even if the item was as described.

I didn't know Lion had to be downloaded! Thank you for that. Even more reason to suspect him as he obviously made it up to appease me. Initially I asked for a refund because, as you say, I thought I could simply change my mind within 7 working days of purchase, forgetting this was concluded in person and outside eBay. However I then discovered it had the wrong OS installed. Last night I found out something even worse: this was a 2008 single processor Mac in a 2010 Westmere, twin-processor box. I think that's my main reason for requesting a refund just changed.

By the way if this goes to small claims does anyone know if I'd be compelled to attend the hearing? I'm disabled. Just getting beyond the front door isn't easy. Separate thread really I suppose but it's related so I'd appreciate knowing if anyone can tell me. Thanks.