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Epson - Removal of eBay listing

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I didn't put this on the eBay sub-forum as it is more of a vent.

Here what happened:

My approx 2 year old Epson B40W was playing up - not printing black ink. After a few attempts at print head cleaning I decided to buy a cleaning cartridge and some compatible inks. Up until that point I had been using genuine ones but as I thought I might not be able to clean the print heads I thought I would buy some cheaper compatible ones just to print test sheets.

Anyway the cleaning cartridge did not work so I was looking at replacing the printer with a Epson XP850. But as it was out of stock at PC World/Currys I hadn't bought it yet.

I listed the remaining compatible cartridges on eBay - I said in the title and description they were compatible cartridges and just to make sure in big bold pink letter at the bottom I reiterated that their were compatible not genuine Epson cartridges.

This morning I receive an email from eBay saying my listing has been removed as I was using the Epson brand name. Epson's legal team had reported my listing to eBay and they removed it.

I appreciate they have to protect trademarks but maybe it's just me that this seems a little pathetic? I even said in the listing that I was selling the ink as my printer had broke so I kinda feel like Epson are kicking me while I was down.

"We made a crappy printer, because your printer was crappy you spent money trying to sort the problem, because you couldn't fix the problem you will need to spend more money replacing the printer and to top it off don't you dare sell those compatible inks to recoup a bit of the money you've spent. Love from the Epson legal team"

Would this put you off buying an Epson printer? Because it's put me off.
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Comments

  • sillygoose
    sillygoose Posts: 4,795 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture
    There are thousands of compatible listing on Ebay that mention Epson like this one:
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15PK-INK-CARTRIDGE-EPSON-STYLUS-DX3800-DX3850-DX4250-DX4200-DX4800-DX4850-/110911017303

    So it must have been a loop hole in something you posted, I suspect you said too much by saying "not genuine Epson cartridges" as Ebay are very tight on 'counterfeit goods' so by 'admitting' something was not the actual brand was probably enough to do it.

    I wouldn't feel too victimised, I don't suppose Epson are stalking you with a vendetta, they are just protecting their brand within Ebay's rules and probably one of their staff spent 5 seconds on this.

    Just list again with minimum info, list the printer models it fits and the code numbers for the cartridges, people will still find your listing fine.
  • Leo2020
    Leo2020 Posts: 910 Forumite
    edited 28 March 2013 at 12:07AM
    Not sure how saying non-genuine would have made Epson request deletion of my listing but saying compatible (by the way I also used the term compatible in the title and description but just put a final reminder at the bottom of the listing that they wernt actual Epson cartidges) would mean they wouldn't request deletion.

    Anyway according to eBay I am not allowed to use the Epson because their not Epson cartridges. The removal had nothing to do with them being fake. This is from the email I was sent.

    "The rights owner or an agent authorized to act on behalf of the rights owner, Epson Deutschland GmbH, notified eBay that this listing breaches intellectual property rights. When eBay receives a report of this type of breach, we remove the listing to comply with the law.

    Why did we remove your listing?

    Your listing was reported for using a brand name without the right's owner's permission.

    It's against the law to use someone else's trademark - the unique sign, name, word, phrase, logo, or symbol used to identify a product or service - without their permission. It can also confuse buyers about the source of your item or your relationship with the trademark owner.

    You can use a company's brand name or logo in your listing description only if the item you're selling was made or authorised by that company."

    So according to eBay I can list the cartridges as compatible but not what they are compatible with because that would mean using the Epson brand name.

    I don't think they have a personal vendetta but I just feel that Epson are picking on the small "guy" here.
  • Leo2020
    Leo2020 Posts: 910 Forumite
    And to add, lots of others use the term non-genuine: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2051738.m570.l2736&_nkw=non+genuine+epson

    I have asked for clarification from eBay as I don't know why others can use the name Epson in their product descriptions but I can't.
  • sillygoose
    sillygoose Posts: 4,795 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture
    Ebay used to have a lot of problems with people listing things such as 'BNIB Lovely blue jumper like Next ones' because Next clothes were popular so it was a way of getting your listing to show up in when people searched for it.

    It could be misleading so they tried to knock it on the head.

    Yes they do pick on the little guy, I have had negative feedback I have left for their larger sellers easily removed by the seller, some will even mock you how easy it is for them.

    I do think if you listed as them as 'New Compatible inkjet cartridges type 1241, 1242, 1243 fits Epson models 840, 845, 1245, 1260.....'

    it wouldn't be an issue.
  • sillygoose
    sillygoose Posts: 4,795 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture
    Leo2020 wrote: »
    And to add, lots of others use the term non-genuine: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2051738.m570.l2736&_nkw=non+genuine+epson

    I have asked for clarification from eBay as I don't know why others can use the name Epson in their product descriptions but I can't.

    Perhaps they are hunting you down... Epson are Japanese, better watch out for Ninjas for the next few days!

    ninja_printer.jpg
  • techspec
    techspec Posts: 4,464 Forumite
    sillygoose wrote: »
    There are thousands of compatible listing on Ebay that mention Epson like this one:
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15PK-INK-CARTRIDGE-EPSON-STYLUS-DX3800-DX3850-DX4250-DX4200-DX4800-DX4850-/110911017303

    That one does not mention what ink its a copy of - just what printers it will work with.

    Eg putting lexmark 35 compatable ink is a no-no - putting ink cartridge for the lexmark z1420 printer would be allowed.
  • Leo2020
    Leo2020 Posts: 910 Forumite
    If any Ninjas come knocking at my door I'll tell you.:D

    I just find it strange as I haven't done anything different from all the other sellers on eBay, as far as I can tell anyway.

    Just have to wait and see what Epson and eBay say.
  • Helix
    Helix Posts: 2,381 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Would it work listing them with just the model number of the printer and not mention Epson at all. You might get buyers just searching for "*model number* cartridges"
  • Leo2020
    Leo2020 Posts: 910 Forumite
    I could re-list without mentioning Epson but it would make the cartridges a lot harder to find. Esp. when everyone else seems to be able to mention Epson so their results in searches are going to come up above mine.

    I think I will wait on clarification from eBay because I don't want to re-list and make another mistake as eBay might give me more than a slap on the wrist next time.
  • Leo2020
    Leo2020 Posts: 910 Forumite
    eBay's response:

    Hello ******,
    Thank you for your email. My name is Dave and I'll be glad to assist you regarding the removal of your Epson Cartridge listing (item no. 330895081627).

    I realise your concern in this regard as to why your listing was removed when you are able to find similar listing available on the site. I also understand that you wish to relist your item. Allow me to explain you the situation.

    ******, please understand, eBay has an obligation to remove items in certain circumstances. In your case, 'Epson Deutschland GmbH', an intellectual property rights owner, reported your listing for infringing their intellectual property rights. As a result of this we've credited all fees associated with this listing to your eBay account.

    eBay hasn't inspected your item, and we're not experts in the rights of third parties, so we're not qualified to decide whether your item infringed the intellectual property rights of the rights owner.

    I realise that you wish to relist your item please note that, they will be able to provide you with specific information on why requested the removal of your item. This is why we urge you to contact the Rights Owner directly to resolve this matter. Please contact them directly at this email address:
    epson_legal_enforcement@epson.de

    Once you're able to resolve the issue with the rights owner, and they grant you permission to relist the item and contact us regarding the same. We will restore your item and remove the associated breach from your account. We value your membership and look forward to a long-term association with you. Therefore, I would request you not to relist this item until you heard back from the rights owner.

    If you don't get a reply in five business days, let us know by replying to this email. We'll contact the rights owner on your behalf and ask them to get in touch with you.

    ******, in regards to similar listings available on the site. It may be that the rights owner isn't aware of it yet or are in the process of reporting them. I suggest letting via above email address. If they report those listings to us we will surely take appropriate action on them and please be assured that our policies apply to all sellers equally

    For further information on eBay's intellectual property policies and Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) Programme, take our tutorial by copying this link into a new browser window:
    http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/tutorial/verotutorial/intro.html

    Thank you for taking the time to clarify this matter with us. I hope your issue gets resolved with the rights owner and trust that this information would be helpful for your future items.

    Kind regards,
    Dave Snowie
    eBay VeRO Team


    -- So until Epson give me permission to re-list the item and use their name I am stuck.
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