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Any Advice in a Desperate Situation

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  • Silk
    Silk Posts: 4,836 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture
    ...........but which precise term did they not abide by?.......where does it mention that 'Failing to limit the losses by doing nothing for the week before it was reported to the Network' would mean that they did not 'abide'.
    It's to do with mitigation ...........Any party that suffers a loss has a duty to mitigate (keep losses to a minimum)..in this case the OP/Son failed in that duty by not reporting it and enabling the useage to be halted asap.
    if you read my posts I was suggesting that if Orange tried to chase the charges in court a judge may decide that the Network should have done more to stop the charges racking up.
    The Court court may have decided that Orange should of had measures in place similar to banks and credit card companies.
    Thats what I meant by "what if" situations ....in this case they are not going to court as they rarely do.
    and what do you believe lies behind these huge fraudulent bills run up on stolen phones?
    Lets stick to the facts as we know them ;)
    The calls were made to Pakistan, assuming they were made by whoever found/stole the phone they were probably charged out at £1.50 per min plus vat circa £108 an hour. It doesn't take long to rack up huge bills and the longer the OP left reporting it the bigger the bill
    It's not just about the money
  • wantmemoney
    wantmemoney Posts: 836 Forumite
    you didn't answer a single question
    Silk wrote:
    Originally Posted by wantmemoney
    ...........but which precise term did they not abide by?.......where does it mention that 'Failing to limit the losses by doing nothing for the week before it was reported to the Network' would mean that they did not 'abide'.
    It's to do with mitigation ...........Any party that suffers a loss has a duty to mitigate (keep losses to a minimum)..in this case the OP/Son failed in that duty by not reporting it and enabling the useage to be halted asap.
    yes but link to and quote the part of the Orange web site where it specifically states this constitutes a failure to abide by their terms.
    Silk wrote:
    Originally Posted by wantmemoney
    if you read my posts I was suggesting that if Orange tried to chase the charges in court a judge may decide that the Network should have done more to stop the charges racking up.
    The Court court may have decided that Orange should of had measures in place similar to banks and credit card companies.
    Thats what I meant by "what if" situations ....in this case they are not going to court as they rarely do.
    so you believe posters shouldn't give an opinion on whether the OP should or shouldn't pay the bill or what they believe Orange or a court may or may not do.
  • Silk
    Silk Posts: 4,836 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture
    you didn't answer a single question
    I did but you chose to ignore them ;)
    yes but link to and quote the part of the Orange web site where it specifically states this constitutes a failure to abide by their terms.
    I doubt it will exist as theres no need for it. It's a basic legal principle which will apply should the need arise.
    so you believe posters shouldn't give an opinion on whether the OP should or shouldn't pay the bill or what they believe Orange or a court may or may not do.
    I didn't say that posters shouldn't give an opinion, what I said was that all these "what if" scenario's may be why the OP has not returned to the thread.

    As Orange are not taking the OP to Court (nor likely to) whats the point in discussing what may happen. As for an opinion as to whether the OP should pay the bill thats up to the OP.

    Whats important is that the OP is given the correct information for their current circumstances....whats not important is theories about organised crime, conspiracy tales of profits made from crime or speculation of whether it was the butler that did it ;)
    It's not just about the money
  • Guys_Dad
    Guys_Dad Posts: 11,025 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    you didn't answer a single question

    yes but link to and quote the part of the Orange web site where it specifically states this constitutes a failure to abide by their terms.

    so you believe posters shouldn't give an opinion on whether the OP should or shouldn't pay the bill or what they believe Orange or a court may or may not do.

    Agree with Silk about speculating about what a court may or may not do.

    Presumably they might be influenced by Ofcom's view ( but now I am speculating, slap on wrist)

    http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/2012/03/lost-or-stolen-mobile-phone/
    "But if your phone does go missing you could be left with a much bigger headache than simply having to replace your handset.
    Thieves can quickly run up huge bills and you could be liable for these charges.
    Although mobile phone operators do look out for fraudulent activity they may not necessarily spot unusual usage on individuals’ accounts, and they and are not obliged to notify consumers of any unusual activity on an account.
    You should always report a missing phone immediately, even if you think you may have just misplaced it....................

    You may be liable for all charges run up on your phone before you have reported it lost or stolen. This is usually set out in the terms and conditions of your contract. Therefore, you should contact your provider as soon as possible."

    Plus a bit more as well.

    It is not the remit of any vendor to spell out legal requirements re mitigation which apply to just about any loss situation.
  • wantmemoney
    wantmemoney Posts: 836 Forumite
    edited 2 April 2013 at 11:13PM
    Silk wrote:
    Originally Posted by wantmemoney
    ...........but which precise term did they not abide by?.......where does it mention that 'Failing to limit the losses by doing nothing for the week before it was reported to the Network' would mean that they did not 'abide'.
    It's to do with mitigation ...........Any party that suffers a loss has a duty to mitigate (keep losses to a minimum)..in this case the OP/Son failed in that duty by not reporting it and enabling the useage to be halted asap.
    The Network does not distinguish between someone who didn't report the loss for a week because they didn't realise the phone was lost and somebody who failed to report it for a week because of laziness.

    Mitigation has nothing to do with the decision of the Network.
    Silk wrote:
    Originally Posted by wantmemoney
    yes but link to and quote the part of the Orange web site where it specifically states this constitutes a failure to abide by their terms.
    I doubt it will exist as theres no need for it. It's a basic legal principle which will apply should the need arise.
    because it has nothing to do with the Network agreement....'mitigation' is decided in a Court.
    and
    YES it would only arise if the OP refused to pay the bill and Orange decided to chase it in Court.
    so
    Silk wrote:
    As Orange are not taking the OP to Court (nor likely to) whats the point in discussing what may happen. As for an opinion as to whether the OP should pay the bill thats up to the OP.
    you why are you even talking about mitigation?
  • Silk
    Silk Posts: 4,836 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture
    The Network does not distinguish between someone who didn't report the loss for a week because they didn't realise the phone was lost and somebody who failed to report it for a week because of laziness.
    Why should they distinguish between the two?, the result is the same whichever situation you choose.
    Mitigation has nothing to do with the decision of the Network.
    ??????? Decision for what exactly ???????
    because it has nothing to do with the Network agreement....'mitigation' is decided in a Court.
    and
    YES it would only arise if the OP refused to pay the bill and Orange decided to chase it in Court.
    so
    Who said it had anything to do with the agreement ????
    However mitigation is considered by a party before entering into litigation if losses are present. Either way it's yet another "what if" waste of time
    why are you even talking about mitigation?
    Because you brought it up in post #72 and then I had to correct your understanding of it in #80 .........
    Originally Posted by wantmemoney viewpost.gif
    well yes......mitigation is not a law it's merely a term (a word)
    Silk wrote: »
    Not quite true as it's a legal principle not just a word, which in this case the OP has failed to abide by. Failing to limit the losses by doing nothing for the week before it was reported to the Network to cap the loss etc
    The Network has done their side correctly by blocking the phone as soon as it was reported.
    It's not just about the money
  • wantmemoney
    wantmemoney Posts: 836 Forumite
    edited 3 April 2013 at 11:56AM
    good grief...causing petty pointless argument is helping nobody apart from the Networks and their agenda to blame the customer.



    @spokeswoman and anyone else with the same problem
    there is an alternative solution to the problem of huge bills run up on stolen phones that is being offered by the moneysavingexpert 'regulars'.
    The advice being offered on this forum appears almost identical to the advice you would receive from your Network customer service.

    If you don't mind the your Network trashing your credit rating (and they will).

    Get advice on how to properly dispute the bill in writing (from the CAB or a forum like http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/).

    Your Network will almost certainly write the alleged 'debt' off and sell it to a Debt Collection Agency (you can also get advice on how to handle/ignore them)
  • Kingsd316
    Kingsd316 Posts: 1,394 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Just to add my experience, my wife had her phone stolen in London, she rang me on a payphone within about 20 mins, I called orange for her and they barred the phone there and then, all i had to give was my wifes name and billing address, i even sorted out a replacement phone with the insurance during the same call
    :beer:
  • good grief...causing petty pointless argument is helping nobody apart from the Networks and their agenda to blame the customer.



    @spokeswoman and anyone else with the same problem
    there is an alternative solution to the problem of huge bills run up on stolen phones that is being offered by the moneysavingexpert 'regulars'.
    The advice being offered on this forum appears almost identical to the advice you would receive from your Network customer service.

    If you don't mind the your Network trashing your credit rating (and they will).

    Get advice on how to properly dispute the bill in writing (from the CAB or a forum like http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/).

    Your Network will almost certainly write the alleged 'debt' off and sell it to a Debt Collection Agency (you can also get advice on how to handle/ignore them)

    Not sure how disputing the bill in writing will change things. They will probably still only offer half the bill reduced. If OP doesn't accept this then the full amount will more than likely be passed to a debt collection agency.

    Yes, if OP doesn't mind a trashed credit rating then disputing/ignoring it would (possibly) work.
  • Silk
    Silk Posts: 4,836 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture
    good grief...causing petty pointless argument is helping nobody apart from the Networks and their agenda to blame the customer.
    Well it's helped you learn what mitigation is ;)
    @spokeswoman and anyone else with the same problem
    there is an alternative solution to the problem of huge bills run up on stolen phones that is being offered by the moneysavingexpert 'regulars'.
    The advice being offered on this forum appears almost identical to the advice you would receive from your Network customer service.

    If you don't mind the your Network trashing your credit rating (and they will).

    Get advice on how to properly dispute the bill in writing (from the CAB or a forum like http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/).

    Rubbish !!! the OP's legal obligation won't change no matter what forum they post on !

    The advice and facts given on CSG is just the same as here ....in fact they even have the same people creating theories and stories about how the networks are in league with the devil :rotfl:
    It's not just about the money
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