Bitcoins

sabretoothtigger

You can already short btc, a uk broker does this

Rich people can buy into btc business if they wanted, it is still small. There is alot of money gone into manufacturing and specialist chip design, like mobile phones but all they do is process transactions not calls

Schiff speaking on btc says it must be a pyramid as it is exchangeable for nothing. Nobody can claim value, its all relying on the market to swap it.
A counter to that is it cant be confiscated then if there is no central store for each token. Its totally dynamic and global.

Barrels of oil would be currency but even somalia pirates in fishing boats have proven why its vulnerable and potentially costly/inefficent store of value.

Gold for example does not propose to 'make' money, it is purely a solid inert store. The price changes but only as currency itself fails to hold value.
But the big if to this, fiat money since 1971 has promised you nothing in exchange yet its lasted 42 years so why not BTC to last as long?

why so skeptical just because its digital, as said money is mostly not printed but a figure in a computer so why kick up a fuss about a valid competitor?

Satoshi

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

You can already short btc, a uk broker does this

Rich people can buy into btc business if they wanted, it is still small. There is alot of money gone into manufacturing and specialist chip design, like mobile phones but all they do is process transactions not calls

Schiff speaking on btc says it must be a pyramid as it is exchangeable for nothing. Nobody can claim value, its all relying on the market to swap it.
A counter to that is it cant be confiscated then if there is no central store for each token. Its totally dynamic and global.

Barrels of oil would be currency but even somalia pirates in fishing boats have proven why its vulnerable and potentially costly/inefficent store of value.

Gold for example does not propose to 'make' money, it is purely a solid inert store. The price changes but only as currency itself fails to hold value.
But the big if to this, fiat money since 1971 has promised you nothing in exchange yet its lasted 42 years so why not BTC to last as long?

why so skeptical just because its digital, as said money is mostly not printed but a figure in a computer so why kick up a fuss about a valid competitor?

My previous post:-

Satoshi wrote: »

This is the big difference between physical silver and digital currency. If either became illegal to use in the case of silver bullion the value would go up and the free market would find the value as its traded in the black market untraceable physically changing hands in private in underground car parks or stations with no paper or digital trail. If bitcoins were made illegal everyone would have to comply because there is no way to transact privately with no trail. It would cease to exist and go back to its intrinsic value of nothing where it came from.

Sabre about confiscation when they tried it with gold in the USA in my grandfathers time he told me no one actually handed over their gold. They just kept it hidden, it will be the same if ever they try again to confiscate gold and silver bullion. People will just hide their bullion.

You cant do that with bitcoin, there is no way to hide it. The moment it becomes illegal thats it game over.

csm888

Satoshi wrote: »

You cant do that with bitcoin, there is no way to hide it. The moment it becomes illegal thats it game over.

Of course it can be hidden, how much do I have, you have no idea? Even if I sent you some coins or you sent me some at an address I supplied, you could do some analysis of the block chain but you still wouldn't know how much I have, and I'm not even trying to hide it.

Making it illegal would only have an effect on the fiat exit/entry points in the country it was made illegal.

Satoshi

csm888 wrote: »

Of course it can be hidden, how much do I have, you have no idea? Even if I sent you some coins or you sent me some at an address I supplied, you could do some analysis of the block chain but you still wouldn't know how much I have, and I'm not even trying to hide it.

Making it illegal would only have an effect on the fiat exit/entry points in the country it was made illegal.

I can not find out but the government can. If it was illegal all bitcoin wallets would be illegal and if it was a situation where it was for national security threatening with the talk of prison or even financial terrorism then that would be the end of bitcoin.

[Deleted User]

Satoshi wrote: »

I can not find out but the government can.

How?

Bitcoin is not anonymous, but that doesn't mean each address is identifiable. You could hold and use bitcoins without it ever being possible to identify you, as long as you didn't expose your identity.

If any government could prevent Bitcoin they would also be able to prevent gold or silver. Personally I'd argue it's far easier to use Bitcoin without the governments "permission" than it is silver or gold.

sabretoothtigger

No what they could do is make it an underground market. USSR has dollars for goods and markets for them.
Argentina restricts dollars, Chevez's cronies restrict dollars with offical and unoffical exchange rates. I guess China you cant exactly buy what you like.

It would be like seizing every car on the motorway. They'd stop the exits first.
Most cars are not on the motorway, they are parked where ever. The gov cannot on a minute scale seize every car without arresting all people (bitcoin can carried in the size of a stamp)
They cant stop bitcoin but they can close all exits and destroy internet commerce I guess is the result.

I doubt we'd see a virtual checkpoint charlie in the centre of every town just to stop this

If bitcoins were made illegal everyone would have to comply because there is no way to transact privately with no trail.

Its public record but nobody says who owns what. I dont think there is any location info recorded, thats the websites.

Silver price would rise if it was outlawed? BTC price would probably decline because its about ease of use so using a pigeon carrier to swap money because theres no internet would be not as good but then pigeons cant carry a kilo of silver so its superior still in some ways

Satoshi

How could BTC function without internet? Who would know which bitcons got transferred ownership?

I heard someone else say something about bitcoin could transact with the internet but dont understand it.

the main problem i see with bitc is that you need a functional computer and power to use it.

if necessary, tptb will cut/ration power to the domestic grid and channel reserves to what tptb deem 'essential' services, eg their homes etc.

paddyrg

Satoshi wrote: »

the main problem i see with bitc is that you need a functional computer and power to use it.

Ironically, none of the power used to calculate bitcoins is paid for in bitcoins. To date at least.

sabretoothtigger

Satoshi wrote: »

How could BTC function without internet? Who would know which bitcons got transferred ownership?

I heard someone else say something about bitcoin could transact with the internet but dont understand it.

the main problem i see with bitc is that you need a functional computer and power to use it.

if necessary, tptb will cut/ration power to the domestic grid and channel reserves to what tptb deem 'essential' services, eg their homes etc.

Your talking about nuclear winter scenarios there. A massive solar magnetic pulse could wipe everything else, theres always yellowstone park volcano and so on but otherwise I'm not betting on extremities like that

the main problem i see with bitc is that you need a functional computer and power to use it.

To hold the coin, can be done on a musical xmas card. seriously very basic capabilities only.
To actually encrypt the blockchain is like a modern enigma machine, its a fairly big deal but they can vary difficulty in line with available power.

Before the internet computers did keep in contact more intermittently. I think its possible still but in any case to destroy internet would take every nation together, all that is unlikely when theres no benefit to do so.
One country blocking it yes but people will still be able to connect I think

csm888

Satoshi wrote: »

I can not find out but the government can. If it was illegal all bitcoin wallets would be illegal and if it was a situation where it was for national security threatening with the talk of prison or even financial terrorism then that would be the end of bitcoin.

How can governments find out? Do you just make this stuff up, or do you have some information to support your ideas.