Bitcoins

Satoshi

Peter Shiff has some good points

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L7SOPDOvvI&feature=youtu.be

But all the bitcoin zelots will hate it.

csm888

Satoshi wrote: »

Peter Shiff has some good points
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L7SOPDOvvI&feature=youtu.be
But all the bitcoin zelots will hate it.

Yawn... he says..
bitcoin is supposed to be gold2
bitcoin has not intrinsic value, so its different to gold
dollars used to be backed by gold
now we have fiat, which is not back by gold
fiat has value because it can pay taxes
Its a sales pitch for buying gold, I guess for he'd prefer if you did it from his company.

My Notes:
Gold has little intrinsic value, certainly not enough to justify its price.

Fiat doesn't have value because it can pay taxes, that is just clutching at straws. When the gold standard was dropped we continued under a shared illusion that we believed it had value. Is he really trying to convince me that the fact that it can pay taxes equates with original backing with gold, none of this means anything, currency is faith, trust, its worth what another will sell/pay for it. The backing of a currency is something the gold and silver brigade cling onto, even governments don't believe in this anymore.

We've heard all these arguments before from the in the Dot Com period, "all these internet companies are a passing phase, its bricks and mortar that matter, solid reality backed businesses will keep their value and will never die".... but see... that was just crap also.

csm888

I would love to go into space
http://www.coindesk.com/virgin-galactic-will-accept-bitcoin-space-travel-says-billionaire-entrepreneur-sir-richard-branson/

N1AK

BoracicLint wrote: »

Do you not think that the volatility can subside as Bitcoin becomes accepted as a means of currency? Germany will accept Bitcoin to pay taxes, it also allows the Chinese to overcome their capital controls and allows wealth to flow out of the country in greater volume, more and more vendors are accepting it as currency. All of these factors will surely reduce the speculation somewhat?

I still fail to see the analogy with dutch Tulips, which didn't have any of the uses of Bitcoin, or the underlying tech supporting them.

You could buy things with Tulips, trade was a far more common form of transaction then than now. What uses does BTC have aside from to buy things with?

If you can't see the similarity then it is your economic knowledge that is failing not the comparison. Increased use of BTC won't do anything to stabilise the market at all, it's not like that magically creates more it simply puts more demand into a market where supply is severely hamstrung by speculation.

If you were German and you could pay your 5k euro tax bill with Euros or BTC why would you use BTC instead of euros when BTC are increasing in value all the time? Rationally you wouldn't, which means you are keeping those BTC out of circulation and limiting supply.

That drives prices up, just like someone who refuses to sell Tulips because they'll be worth more tomorrow, until confidence in the market is lost and a fire sale starts.

N1AK

dryhat wrote: »

Is there a "yawn" smiley anywhere?

I already knew you couldn't put a coherent argument for BTC together if your life depended on it; it's reassuring to know that you can't muster up a compelling counter to a reasoned point either.

The Tulip example wasn't for the benefit of your deficient attention it was for some of the adults on here who aren't allergic to being informed

plunt

N1AK wrote: »

You could buy things with Tulips, trade was a far more common form of transaction then than now. What uses does BTC have aside from to buy things with?

If you can't see the similarity then it is your economic knowledge that is failing not the comparison. Increased use of BTC won't do anything to stabilise the market at all, it's not like that magically creates more it simply puts more demand into a market where supply is severely hamstrung by speculation.

If you were German and you could pay your 5k euro tax bill with Euros or BTC why would you use BTC instead of euros when BTC are increasing in value all the time? Rationally you wouldn't, which means you are keeping those BTC out of circulation and limiting supply.

That drives prices up, just like someone who refuses to sell Tulips because they'll be worth more tomorrow, until confidence in the market is lost and a fire sale starts.

If you were paying from abroad I would use btc rather than those rip off international transfer services!

This was also agreed by witnesses in the senate hearing...

The currency also has more credibility than many nations, many nations have corrupt governments who endlessly print money. BTC would allow them access to a currency that isnt controlled by their own government....

So it does have uses in terms of financial flexibility

csm888

N1AK wrote: »

I already knew you couldn't put a coherent argument for BTC together if your life depended on it; it's reassuring to know that you can't muster up a compelling counter to a reasoned point either.

The Tulip example wasn't for the benefit of your deficient attention it was for some of the adults on here who aren't allergic to being informed

OK, I'll muster up something for your 'reasoned point'

N1AK wrote: »

No the volatility is a result of hoarding. The price of BTCs reflects the price you have to pay to persuade someone that holds them to give them to you. This isn't a new phenomena and it isn't even limited to 'currencies': Tulip Mania

Lets take it piece by piece.
"No the volatility is a result of hoarding." - this is simply an opinion there appears to be no reasoning to justify it. The Volatility could be for a number of reasons, but hoarding doesn't appear to be a causal link for me. Trading, un-defined fundamentals, Whales cashing out... many reasons, but hoarding isn't a reason in itself.

"The price of BTCs reflects the price you have to pay to persuade someone that holds them to give them to you." This is true, this is the very definition of value, it applies to kids in a play ground trading collectible cards, houses, second hand cars, gold and also bitcoin.

Tulip mania, is of course a well know event, but its not relevant to your previous points and doesn't follow a logical flow to make a reasoned point.
In fact there isn't even any correlation between your ideas, let alone any obvious causal link between them.


"People hoard bitcoins, The price is dependant on the price someone will pay. There was this tulip Mania in the 17th Century, where everyone lost all their money"

I'm struggling here to see your reasoned point. If you are going to attack someone for failing to counter an argument perhaps first you should place a reasoned argument before them.

Satoshi

So while at work last night doing my midnight shift internet surfing I came across an article titled "Want to Track All Crypto-Currencies in One Place? Introducing “CoinMarketcap.com” There are 36 crypto-currencies ranging in values of $0.00096 up to $731.14 (at the time of this writing). Now that bitcoin is getting it's fame in the MSM I wonder how much longer until all of these other crypto-clones get more popular?

Link to article source... http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2013/11/21/want-to-track-all-crypto-currencies-in-one-place-introducing-coinmarketcap-com/

What makes bitcoin $700+ when the others are pennies?

JohnRo

Satoshi wrote: »

What makes bitcoin $700+ when the others are pennies?

Integrity, adoption and trust along side a dollar heading in the opposite direction.

Satoshi

JohnRo wrote: »

Integrity, adoption and trust along side a dollar heading in the opposite direction.

why bitcoin though, why integrity in bitcoin? There are tons more crypto currencies in the pipeline some will be backed by metals and things they all want a piece of the action.