Bitcoins

Satoshi

DiggerUK wrote: »

Bitcons worth is determined by its subservience to fiat, it can't exist without that relationship.
Remove or change that fiat, and bitcons go back to what they were....a fantasy.

If the Confederate states of America had access to some sort of equivalent to bitcon, it would have been linked to the Confederate Dollar in one way or another. After the war who would have wanted something linked to the worthless Confederate Dollar.
Gold on the other hand would be convertible to the Federal Dollar, or exchangeable with any new fiat that came along, no matter how long that took.
Looked at from a different angle, it is only possible for somebody in Zimbabwe to buy bitcons by first exchanging Zim$ to another currency.

Getting out of the first world mindset that predominates, how does an electronic currency have any place in poverty stricken areas of the planet that have difficulty getting batteries, let alone electricity.

One of the folktales about bitcon, is that it breaks the reliance on corruptible fiat, and can stand on it's own two feet, something that is simply false.
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But BitCoins could outlast fiat. If the fiat system collapses then BitCoin could still be used to everyday transactions and the free market could work out values.

I do not think this will happen, but its possible. I think the central planners have something in mind most probably a commodities backed new international monetary system that will replace the current one and will kill BitCoins in an instance. But that could be years away.

[Deleted User]

DiggerUK wrote: »

Getting out of the first world mindset that predominates, how does an electronic currency have any place in poverty stricken areas of the planet that have difficulty getting batteries, let alone electricity.

What value does a US dollar have in a poverty stricken place that has no electricity? They can't convert it and nobody is going to accept it, because they can't convert it either.

There are a lot of places poor places that have a significant digital money user base. Kenya leads the world in mobile money for example: http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/05/economist-explains-18

DiggerUK

Satoshi wrote: »

But BitCoins could outlast fiat. If the fiat system collapses then BitCoin could still be used to everyday transactions and the free market could work out values.......

Get real, if one or more major fiats collapsed, or debased to make them virtually useless, bitcon would end.
Try buying a coffee crop in Ghana with bitcon after such a scenario.
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DiggerUK

citricsquid wrote: »

What value does a US dollar have in a poverty stricken place that has no electricity? They can't convert it and nobody is going to accept it, because they can't convert it either.

There are a lot of places poor places that have a significant digital money user base. Kenya leads the world in mobile money for example: http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/05/economist-explains-18

The Kenyans deal in transfers of fiat, not bitcon.

In Zimbabwe the coin of the day is $US. With the SA Rand in second place.
$US still gets a cup of coffee anyplace, anytime anywhere.
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dryhat

DiggerUK wrote: »

The Kenyans deal in transfers of fiat, not bitcon.

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No they don't actually.

The "unit of exchange" on the M-pesa virtual currency system is actually mobile phone airtime credits, not fiat.

And Bitcoin is intergrated into that system already.

DiggerUK

dryhat wrote: »

.....The "unit of exchange" on the M-pesa virtual currency system is actually mobile phone airtime credits, not fiat.
And Bitcoin is intergrated into that system already.

Airtime credits purchased with fiat, yes.

Bitcons are integrated in to many systems....it doesn't mean squat, they are a fantasy game for a small portion of the world.
Don't ignore the fact that out of the 7 billion on the planet, only 1/2 a billion have our affluent life style, and can play this computer game.
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dryhat

DiggerUK wrote: »

Airtime credits purchased with fiat, yes.

Bitcons are integrated in to many systems....it doesn't mean squat, they are a fantasy game for a small portion of the world.
Don't ignore the fact that out of the 7 billion on the planet, only 1/2 a billion have our affluent life style, and can play this computer game.
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To suggest that bitcoins need fiat to have value is laughable. It's like saying gold needs fiat to be valuable.

And over 5 billion either do not have bank accounts or big payment processors do not service their country for one reason or another.

Bitcoin allows these people to engage in commercial activities in ways that fiat does not.

DiggerUK

dryhat wrote: »

To suggest that bitcoins need fiat to have value is laughable. It's like saying gold needs fiat to be valuable.

And over 5 billion either do not have bank accounts or big payment processors do not service their country for one reason or another.Bitcoin allows these people to engage in commercial activities in ways that fiat does not.

In case you haven't been keeping up on your history lessons, gold was an internationally recognised means of exchange before fiat was thought of. Gold would instantly convert into whatever replacement fiat came along. Bitcon would not.

If you have no bank a/c, how do you either get the means to mine, or buy bitcon in the first place.
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dryhat

DiggerUK wrote: »

In case you haven't been keeping up on your history lessons, gold was an internationally recognised means of exchange before fiat was thought of. Gold would instantly convert into whatever replacement fiat came along. Bitcon would not.

If you have no bank a/c, how do you either get the means to mine, or buy bitcon in the first place.
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Exactly. Gold doesn't need fiat and nor does Bitcoin.

In case you hadn't realised, there is a third way of obtaining bitcoins.... earning them by selling goods or services.

And as more and more people do this, the price will beging to stabalise and fiat currencies will become increasingly irrelevant when evaluating bitcoins.

sabretoothtigger

mobiles are surprisingly common even to those who can barely recharge them. If they can btc on mobile thats how prevalent it can be, of course it must be useful to them like a mobile can be