Civil enforcement ltd, do I pay?

Coupon-mad

Lisa_b wrote: »

thanks everyone!
I have emailed DVLA to tell them Civil Enforcement are in reach of the bpa code of practice.
I also spoke to Co op care line who said they will look into it. I explained I was longer than expected due to circumstances and that I'm a good customer but haven't used my card so can't prove I was in store that day. Don't use the bloody thing that often so don't know if they'll drop it! If they don't ill go higher and to the papers.

I have a disabled badge so it will look bad!

Also said that the signage wasn't good, that it doesn't say it's a coop exclusive car park not for the other shops usage too and that i don't think customers should be penalised for taking a while shopping!
Will keep you posted!

I am still concerned that you are 'asking them to drop it' as if it's a request rather than a complaint from you.

And wow, you never said that bit in bold before - you have a Blue Badge? That's important from the point of view of your complaint!

THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW THEN (UKCPS and the Co-op, both of them, assuming it's the Co-op's car park and they took on these protection racketeers).

You could get monetary damages in a simple Small Claim for that, as it's discrimination. Read this, and BTW the law is even stricter now:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8488737.stm

If the Co-op do not get this sorted out (either in store or after a major complaint to the Head Office but with a clear statement about your disability too) I would send a Letter before Action to UJKCPS and the Co-op - if it was the Co-op not the landowner who contracted UKCPS there?

Both parties in this contract are jointly and severally liable for this discrimination, they simply cannot try to impose the same time limit on disabled drivers. Enclose a copy of that BBC report, state that the current applicable law is the Equality Act 2010 (rather than the DDA as in the article which was just before the newer Act).

Demand that the fake PCN is cancelled and ask why the Co-op is not up to speed with disability law as it could find them sued for damages for harassment and an Equality Act breach - and that would be the last of their worries if the press got hold of it.

Lisa_b_3

Thanks everyone!
Well co op customer care were rubbish and refused to cancel it unless I gave them copies of my bank statements to prove I'm a regular customer.... Like I'd trust em with that! They said they do use Civil Enforcement an are happy with them.... Lovely eh! Instead I've spoke to the manager cos they know me there and he was lovely but told me it wasn't co op car park on this occasion! Seems customer care don't know what they're doing! He introduced me to the site manager who was great an told me just to write to Civil Enforcement. He said the cameras don't pick up disabled badges ect! It's awful that it you go over due to your disability you have to still get this horrible shock invoice isn't it! Wonder how many have just paid up? Anyway I'm writing quoting this Disability Equality Act to demand they write it off. I'm also going in the local paper to tell people whata con it all is! Thanks everyone!

Coupon-mad

Lisa_b wrote: »

Thanks everyone!
Well co op customer care were rubbish and refused to cancel it unless I gave them copies of my bank statements to prove I'm a regular customer.... Like I'd trust em with that! They said they do use Civil Enforcement an are happy with them.... Lovely eh! Instead I've spoke to the manager cos they know me there and he was lovely but told me it wasn't co op car park on this occasion! Seems customer care don't know what they're doing! He introduced me to the site manager who was great an told me just to write to Civil Enforcement. He said the cameras don't pick up disabled badges ect! It's awful that it you go over due to your disability you have to still get this horrible shock invoice isn't it! Wonder how many have just paid up?

Anyway I'm writing quoting this Disability Equality Act to demand they write it off. I'm also going in the local paper to tell people whata con it all is! Thanks everyone!

Please don't quote the 'DDA', it's out of date and a complaint looks best with the exact law cited; it's the Equality Act 2010.

And if you think CE will cancel it you have another think coming (sorry). You are treating this as if it will all be sorted and it most likely won't. CE are among the worst scammers - do you mean that Co-op didn't contract with CE there? Who did then because they are breaking the law as well?!

The whole system of camera enforcement of an arbitrary time limit potentially breaches the Equality Act (by the way the Blue Badge scheme is irrelevant on private land as there's more to disability need in private car parks than having a Badge). What the site manager said to you was patronising and blindingly obvious rubbish - of course the cameras don't see a Blue badge but ask yourself if that's right - of course not!

Whoever he works for are liable for this harassment of you - and the site manager probably naively thinks it's a real fine from a reputable firm.

Hope you got angry about this scam, they are not being 'nice' to you they are fobbing you off to a scammer who will reject your appeal and then you will be back to square one. Also, think about it - why on earth SHOULD you have to write to their scammer parking firm when you've given the site manager enough information to know (if he is even aware, I doubt it) that this fake PCN is unlawful.

I would complain in wrtiing to the CEO of the Co-op but maybe wait till the scammers reject your complaint - then enclose copies of all the rubbish letters and threaten the Co-op with a small claim for monetary damages for this harassment. This isn't on and they are not being 'lovely' about this at all, this scam is not over yet.

Lisa_b_3

Hi guys,
Update: dVLA say that they are NOT in breach of code of conduct as they applied and had a special permit granted allowing them to charge silly amounts!
Coop won't have anything to do with it as on this occasion it's the land owners who brought in Civil Enforcement not them, customer care were awful and didn't want to help at all as I haven't been using my reward card and didn't have any proof I shopped there on the day I got the 'fine'. Typical I emptied my handbag and got rid of receipts just days before this bloody thing turned up!
I was going to write to civil re the disabled badge but its actually my mums badge (she was with me) but she doesn't want anything to do with it and is afraid of any repercussions. Decided to ignore it as advised previously but not sure now.. Will they take me to court?

bargepole

Lisa_b wrote: »

... Decided to ignore it as advised previously but not sure now.. Will they take me to court?

CEL have been dishing out court claims like confetti recently, you'll see loads of examples on the PePiPoo Private Parking Forum.

They somehow manage to escalate the £150 charge up to £265 with "administrative costs" and then with solicitors' and court fees it jumps up to £350.

These ridiculous and vexatious claims are designed never to see the inside of a courtroom; they are shelling out £35 to lodge each claim, in the hope that more than 10% of their victims will be scared into paying up.

If, as seems likely, you eventually get the N1 claim form through with the Northampton stamp on it, come back here and we'll provide you with a defence, and a counterclaim against both CEL and the landowner for compensation for breach of the Equality Act 2010.

Coupon-mad

Lisa_b wrote: »

Hi guys,
Update: dVLA say that they are NOT in breach of code of conduct as they applied and had a special permit granted allowing them to charge silly amounts!
Coop won't have anything to do with it as on this occasion it's the land owners who brought in Civil Enforcement not them, customer care were awful and didn't want to help at all as I haven't been using my reward card and didn't have any proof I shopped there on the day I got the 'fine'. Typical I emptied my handbag and got rid of receipts just days before this bloody thing turned up!
I was going to write to civil re the disabled badge but its actually my mums badge (she was with me) but she doesn't want anything to do with it and is afraid of any repercussions. Decided to ignore it as advised previously but not sure now.. Will they take me to court?

Your mum doesn't need to be involved!

The guy on pepipoo who has just won at POPLA and is now about to get compensation from the retail park who contracted the PPC in his case, has a disabled relative and that relative has not had to get involved AT ALL. It has just taken an effort to appeal and win at POPLA then to pursue the retail park who were trying to pretend all was fine, until they got his Letter Before Action demanding a very reasonable out of court settlement.

I really think you are unecessarily worried and almost ducking out of this, as if you've done something wrong, when you should be kicking up a fuss, appealing it to POPLA (with help from here with your wording), winning the appeal and then maybe getting compensation from the landowner (all of which will not involve your mum at all). The repercussions will be an apology and compensation if you just take the bull by the horns now that you have the 'right' to appeal.

I repeat the BBC article link I gave you before:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8488737.stm

...the only difference now is that the Equality Act gives you MORE protection than the old DDA mentioned in the article, because it's now illegal to harass a disabled person or their carer as well as to discriminate against them.

By the way we have also never seen that 'special permission' that CE reckon they have to charge silly amounts randomly in all their car parks, so definitely demand in your POPLA appeal that it is shown as well as the contract/site agreement with the landowner. But your main point will be the fact that it's simply against the law to break the Equality Act 2010 so any contract attempting to do so is null and void (you'll need to word it better than that and also show POPLA the BBC article too. It explains in simple terms, why it's unlawful to expect disabled people to keep to the same arbitrary time limit as others).

Stroma

Lisa_b wrote: »

Hi guys,
Update: dVLA say that they are NOT in breach of code of conduct as they applied and had a special permit granted allowing them to charge silly amounts!
Coop won't have anything to do with it as on this occasion it's the land owners who brought in Civil Enforcement not them, customer care were awful and didn't want to help at all as I haven't been using my reward card and didn't have any proof I shopped there on the day I got the 'fine'. Typical I emptied my handbag and got rid of receipts just days before this bloody thing turned up!
I was going to write to civil re the disabled badge but its actually my mums badge (she was with me) but she doesn't want anything to do with it and is afraid of any repercussions. Decided to ignore it as advised previously but not sure now.. Will they take me to court?

I would say this is a penalty then, their appeals procedure is also a breach of the bpa code of practice, their upto 105 days before giving a popla code is 3 times longer than the bpa stipulates.

http://www.ce-service.co.uk/faq.html

I would go the popla route IMO as there is a good chance that you'll win. They would have to show the special dispensation they've had for the £150 with popla. Demand that they must give you a popla code within 35 days of an appeal rejection, if they fail to give it they will time out.

Kite2010

POPLA - Dear CE, please provide a break down of the £150 losses suffered by over-parking
CE - No
POPLA - Appeal upheld, CE failed to provide breakdown of costs as they knew it would be funnier than all the comedy in the world.

Lisa_b_3

Sorry I'm being a bit thick here but I'm new to all this and slightly sleep deprived having a teething baby!!! Are you saying that I'm better to appeal rather than ignore and appeal due to the cost being so high? Asking what justification they have for this? What do you mean the popla route IMO?

Stroma

what we mean is this

https://www.popla.org.uk

The appeal would be a few things not just one, we can help you with this if you wish.