Charge Notice paid by Car Rental company. Full refund received

oxford1035

Hi,
l have tried to upload documents l have received but unfortunately l don't know how to do this. l have copied e-mails which hopefully will be helpful for anyone able to give any advice.

I rented a car from Avis at Edinburgh Airport in February for 4 days. On Tuesday I discovered Avis had added a £75 charge to my credit card. At this point I had received no correspondance from Avis as to what this charge was for. The Charge Notice refers to me parking in a private car park belonging to Dunelm Mill in Fife Scotland. The Charge Notice was issued by Total Parking Solutions (TPS)There were no signs displayed where the car was parked. I feel Avis had no right to charge my credit card as the dispute was between me and the parking company.

I e-mailed them and received the following reply-

Thank you for your e-mail.

I have checked our records and can confirm that we have been billed by Total Parking Solutions in relation to the attached penalty notice. It has been confirmed that the vehicle was parked in a restricted area during prescribed hours.
We have paid this penalty on your behalf and it has been added to your rental costs as per our terms and conditions of rental, Clauses 6(d) and 2(f). We have debited your account accordingly and we also charged an administration fee of £25.00 plus VAT for the time and labour involved.
I hope the provided information clarifies this issue.

I then sent the following e-mail to Avis-

Thank you for your reply. l have just received a letter by post from you today with an attached copy of a charge notice issued by TPS.

First if all, you have charged me for this stating you have paid this on my behalf. The attached letter from them clearly asks you to supply thm with the details of the driver if the car was hired.

This company is one of many who are preying on carparks around the country without sticking to proper guidelines. For your information, there were no signs where l parked the car on the day in question so they have contravened the British Parking Association's Code of Practice. The Charge Notice they sent is not a Traffic Offence but merely an invoice. Like any invoice you have a choice whether or not it's legal and should be paid.

The Charge Notice should have been sent to me, not you "paying it on my behalf" so l could dispute it. Because you have paid this company it has made it near impossible to now raise any dispute with them as they now have my money, money which as far as l am concerned you had no right to pay them. To give you another scenario, if a person who had hired a car from you received a speeding ticket, you would have to supply the Police with the drivers details in order that the Police can issue them with the appropriate documents. You would not be paying any fines in that instance. As l have already stated they have not followed the guidelines as they should have therefore they have falsely issued this so called Charge Notice. To further compound this blatant form of extortion, you have charged me a further £30 administration fee. It would seem to me that Avis are quite happy to pay this Charge Notice so they can then charge me a so called administration fee.

The copy of the Charge Notice you sent me only has a copy of the front of the Notice and not the back. The front of the Notice clearly says to refer to the back of the Notice regarding making any representations. l cannot even do this as you have not sent me a copy of the back of the notice.

As l cannot contact the company involved due to you not providing a copy of the rear of the form, my dispute will have to be with Avis. As far as l am concerned you had no right to pay this Charge Notice on my behalf. It's like admitting guilt on my behalf without me having the chance to defend myself when they have clearly broken the guidelines which they are supposed to follow. Had this Notice been forwarded to me to deal with l can assure you l would not have paid it without disputing the matter. As the renter Avis have no liability to TPS so therefore had no right to pay them without my permission. l am now £75 out of pocket as things stand, but will not let this matter lie. l look forward to your response.


Today I received the following e-mail reply from Avis-

I would like to advise you that Avis tries to transfer the liability to the driver whenever it is possible, however sometimes because of the time frame we are given, we have to settle the payment of the fine to avoid the increase in the charge. This was the case on this occasion too, if we hadn’t settled the fine by the given date provided by the parking company, the fine would have increased from 45 GBP to 75 GBP as it is indicated on the attached penalty notice. (the 2nd page is also attached where it shows where you can turn to make a complaint)
Even if the penalty charge is not settled by Avis, we charge an administration fee of £25.00 plus VAT per penalty for the time and labour involved processing the query.
Also it is indicated in our terms and conditions and on our rental agreement that :” I may be liable for further charges as set out in Clauses 1,2 and 6 which include, but are not limited to, my liability as owner of the vehicle for charges for traffic or parking violations, during the currency of this agreement. In case of payment by debit, credit or charge card I authorize that all rental charges including charges for accident damage, traffic and administration fees be charged to my credit card.” For your records, please find enclosed the copy of your signed rental agreement.
If the parking company decides that the penalty charge is incorrect, please forward us their confirmation so we are able to remove the traffic violation charge.
I hope the provided information will be of your help.

I received a letter yesterday from Avis with copies of the Charge Notice front page (no copy of the rear page) their terms and conditions and their invoice.

The invoice from Avis was -

DESCRIPTION AMOUNT
Traffic Offence Penalty UKL £0.45
Administration Fee UKL £25
VAT @ 20..00% in the Administration Fee UKL £5

TOTAL AMOUNT UKL 0.75

As you can see their invoice totals 75p, they can't even get that right. As a side issue the actual invoice copy had no VAT number printed on it. I read somewhere that VAT invoices should have the VAT number printed in them, so l wonder if even their invoice is legal.

These are the terms and conditions they refer to in their correspondance.

2(f) Where Avis has agreed to deliver the vehicle to the renter, Renter's liability for damage and theft shall begin on delivery of the vehicle. Renter must bring the vehicle back to the agreed return location, during the operating hours displayed at the rental location. One of Avis' staff must see the vehicle to check it is in good condition. Where Avis has agreed that Renter may return the vehicle outside business hours, or where Renter has requested collection of the vehicle, Renter's liability for damage, theft, parking violations and charges shall extend to the earlier of midday of the first working day following the requested collection time (working day is defined as Monday to Friday 8am to 6pm), or the time of re-inspection of the vehicle by a member of staff.

6(d) On demand, all fines and court costs for parking, traffic or other offences (including any costs, which arise if the vehicle is clamped). Renter must pay the appropriate authority any fines and costs. If he does not, Renter will be responsible to pay Avis' reasonable administration charges, which arise when Avis deals with these matters.

l read on one of the posts on here about the British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Assiciation's guidelines to their members which state Car Rental companies should not pay Private Parking companies. Due to this dating from 2009 l telephoned the BVRLA today to see what the current guidlines. Unsurprisingly he sided with Avis. He told me that the law regarding the new Freedom of information Act doesn't apply in Scotland and that Rental companies have no option than to pay the "fine" as he put it. He suggested l contact TPS and raise a dispute with them as it has nothing to do with Avis.

My view is it would be a complete waste of time contacting TPS as they now have the money, and that my dispute is with Avis as l do not think even by their own terms and conditions they had the right to charge my credit card. The following part- Renter must pay the appropriate authority any fines and costs.- would suggest to me that l should have been given the opportunity to deal with the Charge Notice. Can anyone please advise me the best way to deal with this please.
Many thanks in advance

nigelbb

I just responded over on PePiPoo. This is very similar to the lady also in Scotland who posted here recently. Her car leasing company paid a private charge notice but they rapidly refunded her when challenged. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4502533

Stroma

Your argument is with Avis, they are in breach of their terms and conditions because this is not a fine, is not a penalty and is not covered by any statute law. You need to send them a letter before action and threaten legal action, they don't have a leg to stand on.

Take a look at this thread, and check the link I have to pepipoo in there
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4502533

Half_way

The parking company is not an authority, if you can post the terms and conditions form avis.
At a guess they are in breach of their own terms and conditions, and they must now refund the money, including any admin fees that they have charged you.

Stroma

The T&Cs are in the OP already

Coupon-mad

Avis are actually calling it a penalty charge, LOL!!!!!!!!:rotfl:

Put them right like this pepipoo poster did:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=62531

THAT is the way to demand a refund and make them look flippin' daft!

Guys_Dad

Raise dispute with the credit card company immediately.

Inform Avis that you have done so and if they want their money they can see you in court. You will win without any doubt.

spikyone

It's worse than that C-M, Avis call it a "fine" as well as a "penalty". The ignorant clown who replied to the OP should be fired; Avis don't have a leg to stand on. You would expect that a company as large and 'reputable' as Avis would better-inform their staff. It would be interesting to see how they respond if the OP raises a formal complaint against them, perhaps asking for compensation for the time & effort it's taken to get their money back. How hard can it be for companies to properly update their procedures?

surfboy1

As the original parking invoice was issued in scotland the POFA does not even come into play so dont let avis try to use that excuse!

oxford1035

Many thanks to everyone for taking the time to post a reply to me. It's much appreciated.
l have written to Avis requesting a full refund. l will post how l get on

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Dear Ms. XXXXX
Thank you for your e-mail clarifying Avis's position regarding Avis paying the Charge Notice XXXXXXXX.

l am now writing to you to request a full refund of the £75 which Avis charged to my credit card on 14/03/13 without authorisation and in my view unlawfully. l respectfully request that this refund be carried out within 7 days. Should Avis fail to fully refund me within that time l will take further action for which l will also seek any costs incurred.

l will now set out the full reasons for requesting full refund of the £75.

With respect, the contents of all correspondance from Avis whether by e-mail or the letter dated 14/03/13 which was sent by post, show a complete lack of understanding of Avis's own Terms and Conditions, the British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association's guidelines and also the regulations regarding Private Parking Companies.

l have attached a copy of the letter which was sent to me by Avis as well as the invoice from Avis for the £75.

ln the various correspondance l have received from Avis the following terms have been used, "fine", "penalty", "penalty notice". The opening paragraph in the letter sent 14/03/13 is "The local authorities have billed us according to the enclosed penalty notice in relation to a Traffic Offence/ Bus Lane Infringement"

First of all Total Parking Solutions (TPS) who sent you the Charge Notice are a Private Parking Company. The Charge Notice is nothing more than a speculative invoice. It is not a fine, penalty or whatever else you may wish to call it. TPS have no Statutory Authority in law. TPS claim to be members of the British Parking Association (BPA), and whose guidelines they fllow. The following is part of the BPA guidlines covering fines and authority-


14 Misrepresentation of authority

14.1 You must give clear information to the public about what parking activities are allowed and what is unauthorised.
You must not misrepresent to the public that your parking control and enforcement work is carried out under the statutory powers of the police or any other public authority.
You will be breaching the Code if you suggest to the public that you are providing parking enforcement under statutory authority.

14.2 You must not use terms which imply that parking is being managed, controlled and enforced under statutory

authority. This includes using terms such as ‘fine’, ‘penalty’

or ‘penalty charge notice’.
As you can see the BPA's guidelines are clear regarding statutory authority and fines etc.
The Charge Notice issued by TPS refers to an incident which took place in Scotland, and for which l have already told you l would have disputed, had l had the opportunity before Avis took the action they did. As such, you will be aware that the law regarding Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 does not apply in Scotland. As I understand it the registered keeper in such a situation has no obligation to disclose the details of the driver to the parking facility operator and data processing rules under the Data Protection Act 1998 would presumably prohibit this in any case. Therefore in my view the correct course of action would have been for Avis to forward the Charge Notice to me.
l believe Avis are members of the British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association. Below is a copy of the BVRLA's guidelines to their members-
Legislative issues for private parking
It is important to note that currently there is nothing to legally oblige our members to provide customer details or indeed pay a fine which is issued to them as the registered keeper of the vehicle.
Some of our members, having had legal advisors review their contracts, have determined that they are unable to provide customer details to private parking companies and will therefore always reject all fines issued to them by private parking companies.
Until there is legislation in place we are unable to effect this decision of our members, however, we are hopeful that through this code of practice we can mirror as much as possible the local authority environment which could encourage our members to be more willing to provide customer details.
It would appear that Avis have gone against the advice given by their own association.
Regarding Avis's Terms and conditions which you kindly drew to my attention-

2(f) Where Avis has agreed to deliver the vehicle to the renter, Renter's liability for damage and theft shall begin on delivery of the vehicle. Renter must bring the vehicle back to the agreed return location, during the operating hours displayed at the rental location. One of Avis' staff must see the vehicle to check it is in good condition. Where Avis has agreed that Renter may return the vehicle outside business hours, or where Renter has requested collection of the vehicle, Renter's liability for damage, theft, parking violations and charges shall extend to the earlier of midday of the first working day following the requested collection time (working day is defined as Monday to Friday 8am to 6pm), or the time of re-inspection of the vehicle by a member of staff.
6(d) On demand, all fines and court costs for parking, traffic or other offences (including any costs, which arise if the vehicle is clamped). Renter must pay the appropriate authority any fines and costs. If he does not, Renter will be responsible to pay Avis' reasonable administration charges, which arise when Avis deals with these matters.

Neither of these Terms and conditions mention anything to do with Private Parking Companies. Therefore l did not enter into any agreement or contract with Avis regarding PPC's. The Charge Notice as l have already mentioned is nothing more than a speculatice Invoice. It is not enforceable under any statutory laws in this country in the way of any fine or penalty, it is purely a civil matter. l have not contravened any statutory laws, Traffic or otherwise. The following section contained in 6(d) - Renter must pay the appropriate authority any fines and costs. This suggest to me that it is the Renter's responsibility to pay in the first instance, not Avis. Again as previously stated Avis took it upon themselves to deal with this matter without any autherisation from me. Therefore it is my view that Avis have contravened their own terms and conditions.
With regards to the copy of the invoice sent to me by Avis, of which l have attached a copy, l would like to point out the following. You have charged my credit card the sum of £75 but the total shown on your Invoice shows 0.75 which is in fact 75 pence. You have also charged me VAT on the administration fee. The Invoice does not contain any VAT number. It should also contain a serial number which follows on from the number of the previous invoice. l believe all Invoices charging VAT according to HMRC should in fact contain the companys VAT number and a consecutive serial number. l have copied the relevant section from HMRC's website-

A VAT invoice must show:

• an invoice number which is unique and follows on from the number of the previous invoice - if you spoil or cancel a serially numbered invoice, you must keep it to show to a VAT officer at your next VAT inspection
• the seller's name or trading name, and address
• the seller's VAT registration number
• the invoice date
• the time of supply (also known as tax point) if this is different from the invoice date - see below
• the customer's name or trading name, and address
• a description sufficient to identify the goods or services supplied to the customer

Any dispute l had with TPS is now irrelevant due to the action taken by Avis. My dispute now, is solely with Avis.To make my postion clear l would like to reiterate the following points-





1-Avis's terms and conditions of hire have no bearing on an unconnected private contract between individuals.

2-In the event of such a contract Avis would have no legal position to decide on its validity or otherwise.

3- Avis had no liability for a claim from Total Parking Solitions. and Avis therefore erroneously paid the invoice that they received from Total Parking Solutions
.
4- In processing a charge to my credit card for the invoice that Avis received and paid in error and in charging for the perceived costs of their mistake Avis acted outside the terms of my hire agreement with Avis.

5- If Avis disingenuously made this charge in the knowledge that it was not legitimately covered by my hire agreement with them then Avis acted not only unethically but also illegally in processing my credit card details

Given the above, I am sure that you will agree that Avis have erroneously charged my credit card when they had no right to do so. I trust that Avis will acknowledge and apologise for their genuine mistake and ensure that the charges they have made are refunded to me within 7 days from the date of this email, thus avoiding the necessity of my taking further action against Avis.


Yours faithfully,

surfboy1

oxford1035 wrote: »

Many thanks to everyone for taking the time to post a reply to me. It's much appreciated.
l have written to Avis requesting a full refund. l will post how l get on

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Dear Ms. XXXXX
Thank you for your e-mail clarifying Avis's position regarding Avis paying the Charge Notice XXXXXXXX.

l am now writing to you to request a full refund of the £75 which Avis charged to my credit card on 14/03/13 without autherisation and in my view unlawfully. l respectfully request that this refund be carried out within 7 days. Should Avis fail to fully refund me within that time l will take further action for which l will also seek any costs incurred.

l will now set out the full reasons for requesting full refund of the £75.

With respect, the contents of all correspondance from Avis whether by e-mail or the letter dated 14/03/13 which was sent by post, show a complete lack of understanding of Avis's own Terms and Conditions, the British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association's guidelines and also the regulations regarding Private Parking Companys.

l have attached a copy of the letter which was sent to me by Avis as well as the invoice from Avis for the £75.

ln the various correspondance l have received from Avis the following terms have been used, "fine", "penalty", "penalty notice". The opening paragraph in the letter sent 14/03/13 is "The local authorities have billed us according to the enclosed penalty notice in relation to a Traffic Offence/ Bus Lane Infringement"

First of all Total Parking Solutions (TPS) who sent you the Charge Notice are a Private Parking Company. The Charge Notice is nothing more than a speculative invoice. It is not a fine, penalty or whatever else you may wish to call it. TPS have no Statutory Authority in law. TPS claim to be members of the British Parking Association (BPA), and whose guidelines they fllow. The following is part of the BPA guidlines covering fines and authority-


14 Misrepresentation of authority

14.1 You must give clear information to the public about what parking activities are allowed and what is unauthorised.

You must not misrepresent to the public that your parking control and enforcement work is carried out under the statutory powers of the police or any other public authority.
You will be breaching the Code if you suggest to the public that you are providing parking enforcement under statutory authority.
14.2 You must not use terms which imply that parking is being managed, controlled and enforced under statutory

authority. This includes using terms such as ‘fine’, ‘penalty’

or ‘penalty charge notice’.

As you can see the BPA's guidelines are clear regarding statutory authority and fines etc.

The Charge Notice issued by TPS refers to an incident which took place in Scotland, and for which l have already told you l would have disputed, had l had the opportunity before Avis took the action they did. As such, you will be aware that the law regarding Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 does not apply in Scotland. As I understand it the registered keeper in such a situation has no obligation to disclose the details of the driver to the parking facility operator and data processing rules under the Data Protection Act 1998 would presumably prohibit this in any case. Therefore in my view the correct course of action would have been for Avis to forward the Charge Notice to me.
l believe Avis are members of the British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association. Below is a copy of the BVRLA's guidelines to their members-
Legislative issues for private parking

It is important to note that currently there is nothing to legally oblige our members to provide customer details or indeed pay a fine which is issued to them as the registered keeper of the vehicle.

Some of our members, having had legal advisors review their contracts, have determined that they are unable to provide customer details to private parking companies and will therefore always reject all fines issued to them by private parking companies.

Until there is legislation in place we are unable to effect this decision of our members, however, we are hopeful that through this code of practice we can mirror as much as possible the local authority environment which could encourage our members to be more willing to provide customer details.
It would appear that Avis have gone against the advice given by their own association.

Regarding Avis's Terms and conditions which you kindly drew to my attention-

2(f) Where Avis has agreed to deliver the vehicle to the renter, Renter's liability for damage and theft shall begin on delivery of the vehicle. Renter must bring the vehicle back to the agreed return location, during the operating hours displayed at the rental location. One of Avis' staff must see the vehicle to check it is in good condition. Where Avis has agreed that Renter may return the vehicle outside business hours, or where Renter has requested collection of the vehicle, Renter's liability for damage, theft, parking violations and charges shall extend to the earlier of midday of the first working day following the requested collection time (working day is defined as Monday to Friday 8am to 6pm), or the time of re-inspection of the vehicle by a member of staff.

6(d) On demand, all fines and court costs for parking, traffic or other offences (including any costs, which arise if the vehicle is clamped). Renter must pay the appropriate authority any fines and costs. If he does not, Renter will be responsible to pay Avis' reasonable administration charges, which arise when Avis deals with these matters.

Neither of these Terms and conditions mention anything to do with Private Parking Companys. Therefore l did not enter into any agreement or contract with Avis regarding PPC's. The Charge Notice as l have already mentioned is nothing more than a speculatice Invoice. It is not enforceable under any statutory laws in this country in the way of any fine or penalty, it is purely a civil matter. l have not contravened any statutory laws, Traffic or otherwise. The following section contained in 6(d) - Renter must pay the appropriate authority any fines and costs. This suggest to me that it is the Renter's responsibility to pay in the first instance, not Avis. Again as previously stated Avis took it upon themselves to deal with this matter without any autherisation from me. Therefore it is my view that Avis have contravened their own terms and conditions.

With regards to the copy of the invoice sent to me by Avis, of which l have attached a copy, l would like to point out the following. You have charged my credit card the sum of £75 but the total shown on your Invoice shows 0.75 which is in fact 75 pence. You have also charged me VAT on the administration fee. The Invoice does not contain any VAT number. It should also contain a serial number which follows on from the number of the previous invoice. l believe all Invoices charging VAT according to HMRC should in fact contain the companys VAT number and a consecutive serial number. l have copied the relevant section from HMRC's website-

A VAT invoice must show:

• an invoice number which is unique and follows on from the number of the previous invoice - if you spoil or cancel a serially numbered invoice, you must keep it to show to a VAT officer at your next VAT inspection
• the seller's name or trading name, and address
• the seller's VAT registration number
• the invoice date
• the time of supply (also known as tax point) if this is different from the invoice date - see below
• the customer's name or trading name, and address
• a description sufficient to identify the goods or services supplied to the customer

Any dispute l had with TPS is now irrelevant due to the action taken by Avis. My dispute now, is solely with Avis.To make my postion clear l would like to reiterate the following points-

1-Avis's terms and conditions of hire have no bearing on an unconnected private contract between individuals.

2-In the event of such a contract Avis would have no legal position to decide on its validity or otherwise.

3- Avis had no liability for a claim from Total Parking Solitions. and Avis therefore erroneously paid the invoice that they received from Total Parking Solutions
.
4- In processing a charge to my credit card for the invoice that Avis received and paid in error and in charging for the perceived costs of their mistake Avis acted outside the terms of my hire agreement with Avis.

5- If Avis disingenuously made this charge in the knowledge that it was not legitimately covered by my hire agreement with them then Avis acted not only unethically but also illegally in processing my credit card details

Given the above, I am sure that you will agree that Avis have erroneously charged my credit card when they had no right to do so. I trust that Avis will acknowledge and apologise for their genuine mistake and ensure that the charges they have made are refunded to me within 7 days from the date of this email, thus avoiding the necessity of my taking further action against Avis.

Yours faithfully,

Can you not cut this letter down?
Take out a lot of the waffle and just put across the main points?
Avis might not even bother to read this!

Keep it short and to the point.