Non disclosure of penalty points must i pay retrospectively?

Captain_Shambolic

It's not a case of being vindictive though, it's saying 'we have offered this as a gesture of goodwill, if the customer wants to go down the official route then so do we' and then charges the full amount applicable. Being honest, open and transparent doesn't mean the customer can demand details of (potentially) sensitive pricing information, that information would be used by the FOS to see if the insurer was being fair.

As far as fair, in only charging for one year the insurer is being more than fair, overly so. It would be fair to demand the whole amount since the dates of conviction as that is what they are legally entitled to demand. That they don't is goodwill.

EDIT: Need to type faster Capt.

vaio

dunstonh wrote: »

In the same way punters need to be honest and fair too?........

Absolutely, and in this case the OP has had his non disclosure assessed by the insurer and they have decided it was inadvertent and the consequences of such a non discloser is well known within the industry...the punter needs to pay the premium the insurer would have charged had they know the true facts.

The insurer might be able to charge a reasonable admin fee but isn't allowed to charge some random penalty on top of the additional premium (which is certainly the suspicion as the additional premium being demanded for last year is more than the whole premium for this year including the points)

dunstonh wrote: »

....Why not? The person has already proven to be unreliable and gave a false declaration. Some insurers will increase their price because of that........

Yep, insurer can charge what they like at renewal time based on any factor they like and the punter can accept or go elsewhere.

What the insurer can't do is add a penalty to the additional premium due for the non disclosure in this case where the punter is captive. What if the insurer had demanded £1500 extra? £2500? £25,000? The addition premium due is a matter of historical fact and that is what should be charged.

What we really need is the OP to do some dummy quotes to put some meat on the bones

notanewuser

The poster may well have an additional year of NCB Now which may affect such a comparison.

vaio

yep, that's why people have said he needs to do dummy quotes that as accurately as possible reflect the circumstances at the relevant time. So his age, time from conviction and NCB should be entered as if it was the year in question.

On the numbers we have so far, the total premium for this year including the loading for the points is £500 and the insurer is telling the OP that just the loading for the points last year would have been £500. To me that looks wrong but, as you say, he has an extra year of NCB but more importantly he has also changed cars so the figures the insurer is giving might well be correct.

As an extreme example, if the OP was driving a DB9 and paying £2k insurance then the £500 loading looks reasonable and this years premium also makes sense if the OP has moved to a Golf.

On the other hand, if the OP was driving a Fiesta and paying £200 insurance then the £500 loading being demanded look less reasonable.

dacouch

I would not be surprised if DL have charged the back dated premium for more than a year as they're entitled to and have either drafted the letter incorrectly or the OP has miss read their letter.

JimmyTheWig

vaio wrote: »

But that's not what's happening, they are saying £500 for one year, which as you mentioned does seem high and if the dummy quotes agree that it is high then the OP should complain.

I agree it seems high.
I agree the OP should do dummy quotes (where has the OP gone, by the way?).
But they need to be very careful about complaining.

JimmyTheWig

dunstonh wrote: »

Why not? The person has already proven to be unreliable and gave a false declaration. Some insurers will increase their price because of that.

But would that price increase not also apply to the next renewal premium?
I accept your point. If the customer is unreliable, what else might they not have told the insurance company about? Might be something lurking there that the insurance company _never_ find out about. So worth loading the premium for this customer.
But if that is what they think about the OP, why have they not loaded their renewal premium?

And in any event, if that is what they are doing they should say so. If they are saying that the OP needs to pay the difference between what they paid and what they should have paid if they had declared the points, that's what they should be charging.

magpiecottage

vaio wrote: »

As to the insurer cancelling the policy or reneging on the agreement not to charge for previous years if the OP makes a complaint.....I'd hope the FOS would take a very dim view of that sort of vindictive behaviour from an insurer especially as the OP will have evidence that certainly suggests the insurer is over charging.

It is not vindictive - what to charge in the light of a perceived risk is a matter of legitimate commercial judgement and non-disclosure is a risk in its own right.

Also, if an offer by the insurer is not accepted, then it is not binding on it and it can reassess. Some years ago a case was referred to me when somebody decided he not have been offered about £105,000 to resolve a dispute.

I agreed - the insurer had miscalculated so I withdrew the offer and replaced it with one for the correct amount - £20,000.

So complaining in these circumstances is not without its risks.

vaio

magpiecottage wrote: »

It is not vindictive - what to charge in the light of a perceived risk is a matter of legitimate commercial judgement and non-disclosure is a risk in its own right.....

yep, but the issue here is the additional premium due from last year as a result of inadvertent non disclosure. Surely that's not a matter of commercial judgement, it's a matter of historical fact. The amount due is the difference between what the OP actually paid and what he would have paid has he disclosed correctly.

custardy

stepmaxi wrote: »

exactly thats why i told them..doh! for the new car...as i have renewed automatically for last 8 years I didn't know this was needed..so cynical as you are I was never asked the questions again until the new insurance for the new car.

Then you have paid over the odds for 8 years already