Hoarding - Springing Ahead

seven-day-weekend

Hi all.

Rejoined this thread to say, I have just found out a friend of mine is a hoarder.

She used to be (almost excessively) neat and tidy, but then lost both her parents and her job in quick succession, and had a mental breakdown. She is a single lady who lives on her own.

She told me herself that she has not cleaned her flat for about ten years and that there are cobwebs everywhere, as well as things not put away for about the same time, and wage slips and other paperwork going back to 1989.

She joined the Job Club that I help run, and it soon became apparent that she was always 'preparing' to work. Now the Job Club is all about preparing for work and making yourself ready, but in her case she never applies for any job, there is always a reason why she is not 'ready' or can't do whatever we have suggested. For example, she is a very staunch practising Roman Catholic, and has said she would like to work for the church, and in fact got as far as asking the Priest about it. He told her to come back in a few months when there may be an opening for her. When I suggested she ought to now go back (it's been over two years), she had all sorts of excuses as to why the time wasn't right.

I've realised that she is always 'preparing' to do things and not actually doing them.

Anyway, long story short, her brother and his wife have offered to help her clear out her flat. When I asked why she wouldn't let them, she said 'Oh, but they wouldn't know what to throw away', so I said, well look, payslips from 1989 are not necessary, why don't you let them get rid of any before (say) 2010? Her reply was, no she couldn't let them do that, she would have to scrutinise everything herself.

Is there any way I can help her to move forward, or is she just not ready yet?

Advice welcomed.

Gingernutty

Tough one SDW.

Losing both parents like that AND her job were serious blows and this procrastination could be a reaction to grief, a symptom of severe depression and/or evidence of very low self esteem. Or a combination of all three.

Easier said than done however, I would be trying to suggest seeing a doctor as a first port of call.

If there are any mental health services one could access without first going to a doctor, then suggest something like that.

It's like any mental health problem; unless or until she realises that she needs help, she's not going to be helped by anyone intervening no matter how well intentioned.

Gingernutty

Two coats are going - one's a size 22 and one a 20.

They're lovely and I'm going to miss them, but they're swamping me now I'm a 16-18.

Tops, vests, trousers and hangers are also going.

thriftwizard

SDW, when I've been at my lowest, it's been helpful to have someone sitting there, just chattering randomly away & making the odd cuppa, whilst I talk myself through decluttering. And I've done the same for a friend. No judgements, no "encouragement" or organisational tips, just totally off-topic, inconsequential background chatter. I can beat myself up perfectly well, I don't need anyone else to do it! Just having someone else alongside you is helpful, but it really needs to be someone who has been in your shoes & knows how stressful even trying to tackle the problem is, and that "helpful" hints & tips really don't seem helpful at all, just massively judgemental.

I'm really beginning to get somewhere now, albeit slowly. I've decided to draw my horns right in, business-wise, after reading the runes and listening to the voices on the wind, metaphorically speaking; I'm going back to just doing what I do best, and not expecting too much from it. There are some signs that our domestic situation may be improving in the future - DS2 has been taking on assignments that involve international travel & a LOT of overtime, and TDiL has been working double-shifts as well as studying for formal qualifications, with her employers' encouragement, so their savings towards a deposit are ramping up now, and DS3 has been assured of his place (and, sadly, his loan, too) to do an MA - but I'm not banking on things changing fast. So I'm giving up my fixed stall, and have taken a smaller one in a smaller but more upmarket emporium closer to home, which, to be honest, I'm just looking on as storage that pays for itself.

To that end, in my last couple of weeks at the big emporium, I've marked everything down to £1 or less; I just want shot of it all, I don't want to have to bring anything home! I'm taking a hit on some things, but to be honest, a fair proportion of it came from jumble sales where I paid 20p per item, so I'm not actually losing much at all, and I've shifted nearly 100 items in the last 3 days. We're planning to do at least one car boot in the next week, weather permitting, then I'm into the summer fairs & festivals, which I already have enough stock for. Talking to my fellow-traders, we're all experiencing a huge downturn in business, so I'm not acquiring new stock unless I'm 100% certain I can shift it on VERY fast, or already have someone waiting for it.

So the sewing room is back in action, and fabric is moving on, made up into bags and other small & affordable goodies. A baby quilt's been designed, cut out, pieced, quilted, bound, washed, dried & given, two dance costumes have been designed, constructed, sequinned, beaded & performed in, and various items have been mended, so the fabric stash is slowly beginning to dwindle & the room is now properly functional as a bedroom too, although there's quite some way to go before it looks like a "normal" bedroom-come-sewing-studio. The conservatory is beginning to come under control, and I even know what's under the piles of gubbins in the porch.

It's still a long way from "normal" though, and I just never, never want things to build up like this ever again.

seven-day-weekend

Thanks for the advice.
Food for thought.

pigpen

I was saying something along these lines to OH tonight.. I don't want someone to come 'help' or do.. I would like someone to put things into relevant boxes.. a box of paperwork I can sort through later, a box of gibble I can sort through later, a box of yarn I can see and create an inventory for... I don't want anyone to throw anything away, just box it.

Could this lady cope with that?

mothernerd

I think I could happily live without half of the stuff in my house, it's just the physical effort of getting it out. Still quite a lot to do before the builders come.

DS1 came for his parcels yesterday and put some more heavy items in the 'wood store' I have fashioned from the garden table (bread trays underneath to lift everything off the floor, plastic tarpaulin over the top and pieces of my raised beds - already treated for outdoors - holding down the edges and filling any gaps). He queried my 'electrical waste' bag (can't go in the bin and not allowed on the tip 'without a car') then proceeded to tell me off about it.

I have donated some furniture to charity and had 5 items collected by the Council last week but there is so much I want to go.

Diagnosed Vitamin D deficiency (joint/muscle pain, bone pain, extreme tiredness and depression) had slowed me down in the past few weeks. The pills have given me a little boost (only 2 weeks in) but still getting tired quickly.

Will just keep plodding. I think paperwork could have a further cull but may put it all in a big box as it's possibly something I could do in a corner when the builders are here.

DS1 has given me an incentive - need to have the house 'grandchildren safe' in the next two years.

seven-day-weekend

pigpen wrote: »

I was saying something along these lines to OH tonight.. I don't want someone to come 'help' or do.. I would like someone to put things into relevant boxes.. a box of paperwork I can sort through later, a box of gibble I can sort through later, a box of yarn I can see and create an inventory for... I don't want anyone to throw anything away, just box it.

Could this lady cope with that?

The answer is no. I've already suggested it. She would have to look at everything that was going into the boxes.

Can somebody please, if it's not too intrusive, tell me the psychology of no wanting to get rid of stuff, or even have someone put it away neatly? I'm trying to undertstand where she is at.

I'm the opposite, I keep very little. I was helping someone (not a hoarder) pack up a house ready to be sold today and they had so many dinners services, all from long lost relatives. And cuddly toys from their children, who are now pensioners! I just don't understand why you would want them all cluttering the cupboards especially if they never see the light of day. Help required here!

seven-day-weekend

I will, however, remember your tips on not offerring 'helpful advice' as it doesn't appear to be helpful under the circumstances.

dragonette

SDW - there are lots of possible reasons, and lots of different combinations, and sometimes you can't identify a cause. The human brain is incredibly complex Some of the best known are :

Fear of loss - if I get rid of this, I might never be able to get it when I do need it. What if someone else needs this *very specific thing*. Keeping items just in case they are needed. Seems to sometimes go along with a history of having lost or never having had lots of possessions

Custodianship - this thing shouldn't be lost to history (maybe newspapers? Collectables?). Or this item is still useful so I wont get rid of it unless it's going to be used. A need to reuse or recycle everything to avoid waste.

Safety blanket - having Stuff can make you feel safer, practically and emotionally. You can survive some terrible thing happening as you have everything you need already, or items are a substitute for working through dark or complex emotions. Or a way to hide from social interactions

Control - Sometimes you can control Stuff even when you can't control many other things

Sentimental attachment - the item is a physical proof of emotions or a time of life. Sometimes a fear of losing the memory along with the item

Ofc, none of these might be involved in a specific situation. There are probably loads more causes and factors

Helpful advice will vary for every person, I sometimes appreciate it and sometimes hate it. The difficult bit to remember is that it doesn't matter what anyone else is comfortable with, a hoarder needs to be able to live with themselves and pushing to get rid of things can be traumatic and counter productive