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Factor 5 Leiden and Travel Insurance
CountZer0
Posts: 6 Forumite
I'm having a real issue with getting travel insurance wit a pre-existing medical condition (Factor 5 Leiden). It's not that I can't get any but that all the insurers have a magic bullet questions that is worded in a confusing manner and allows them to vary the premium by nearly £200.
I'd like to complain but not sure whether to raise the issue with the FSA, the GMC or the medical screening companyies.
For those that don't know Factor 5 Leiden is a genetic clotting factor abnormality which means people with this disorder are 5 times more likely to clot at the site of injury or with other factors such as smoking etc. It's also quite common with around 20% of the western world though to have it.
More information can be found on NetDoctor.
Anyway, I used to get my insurance with Insure&Go and always disclosed the condition. They used to add around £20 to the normal premium and insured the pre-existing condition.
Now, ALL the insurers have changed their screening questions and don't seem to recognise what the condition is and have this magic question.
As you declare a condition and answer the questions the next question is then based on the previous answer:
As an example...
Q1: What is the condition being declared? Factor 5 Leiden
Q2: Where was the clot (leg, none etc)? Lower leg (DVT)
Q3: Did you also have a PE (pulmonary Embolis)? Yes
Q4: How many clots have you had? 1
Q5: Are you on blood thinning medication? No
Q6: Do you have ongoing issues? No
Q7: Do you have a condition which makes you more likely to clot?
It's that last question that is the magic bullet. It's a yes/no question and how you answer makes the difference between and extra £30 premium or an extra £160 premium.
If I say NO because I have already declared the condition I am told the following conditions WILL be covered for an extra £30:
Factor 5 Leiden
DVT
PE
If I say YES I am told to call the insurer where they ask me THE SAME QUESTIONS and add a premium of around £160 if I say yes to the last question and confirm that the following conditions WILL be covered:
Factor 5 Leiden
DVT
PE
This can't be right! Anyone have the same issue or know who I can complain to as it seems to me that the insurance industry is double dipping with the medical screening?
I'm willing to answer NO and take the risk and go to court to fight if there is a problem but I feel that other people may be getting hammered by an unfair and wrong system.
I'd like to complain but not sure whether to raise the issue with the FSA, the GMC or the medical screening companyies.
For those that don't know Factor 5 Leiden is a genetic clotting factor abnormality which means people with this disorder are 5 times more likely to clot at the site of injury or with other factors such as smoking etc. It's also quite common with around 20% of the western world though to have it.
More information can be found on NetDoctor.
Anyway, I used to get my insurance with Insure&Go and always disclosed the condition. They used to add around £20 to the normal premium and insured the pre-existing condition.
Now, ALL the insurers have changed their screening questions and don't seem to recognise what the condition is and have this magic question.
As you declare a condition and answer the questions the next question is then based on the previous answer:
As an example...
Q1: What is the condition being declared? Factor 5 Leiden
Q2: Where was the clot (leg, none etc)? Lower leg (DVT)
Q3: Did you also have a PE (pulmonary Embolis)? Yes
Q4: How many clots have you had? 1
Q5: Are you on blood thinning medication? No
Q6: Do you have ongoing issues? No
Q7: Do you have a condition which makes you more likely to clot?
It's that last question that is the magic bullet. It's a yes/no question and how you answer makes the difference between and extra £30 premium or an extra £160 premium.
If I say NO because I have already declared the condition I am told the following conditions WILL be covered for an extra £30:
Factor 5 Leiden
DVT
PE
If I say YES I am told to call the insurer where they ask me THE SAME QUESTIONS and add a premium of around £160 if I say yes to the last question and confirm that the following conditions WILL be covered:
Factor 5 Leiden
DVT
PE
This can't be right! Anyone have the same issue or know who I can complain to as it seems to me that the insurance industry is double dipping with the medical screening?
I'm willing to answer NO and take the risk and go to court to fight if there is a problem but I feel that other people may be getting hammered by an unfair and wrong system.
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Comments
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The reality with travel insurance, even more so with other classes of business, is that there are thousands of brand names but not that many underwriters and actually a relatively small number control the majority of those brands.
If you are seeing seemingly different providers asking the same questions it could well be they are actually all the same insurer despite the name of the distributor.
From what you say, if you answer No to question 7 then you are lying and you wont have cover. If that is the case you may as well buy from an insurer who simply doesnt give cover for pre-existing conditions and thus not pay the £30 extra.
Insurers dont always have the best medical advice, the reality is there are millions of ways the human body can function outside of normal parameters and being realistic insurers are not going to have hundreds of doctors to advise them on every possible permutation. When you get into Protection and long term insurance like Life or PHI then you can argue over these mater and provide expert evidence etc but for a £50 travel policy and insurer is happier selling to the 90% of straight forward cases and declining/ overcharging the residual than try to capture the 100% with much higher costs0 -
A few points that I hope may help....
1. If you want to complain, then complain to the insurer and not the medical screening company. The insurer sets the prices.
2. As mentioned above, it could be the same insurer or the same medical screening provider. Try searching for a Tokio Marine or Arch travel insurance as they do not usually use this line of questioning.0 -
Thanks for the response, I realise most of the insurers use the same screening company - Helix Medical I think - and I would love to get in touch with them and have a long conversation with them
I've had insurance from Insure&Go before (a few years ago before they brought in the Internet screening questions and you had to call) and declared the EXACT same condition and symptoms and the extra premium was £30.InsideInsurance wrote: »From what you say, if you answer No to question 7 then you are lying and you wont have cover. If that is the case you may as well buy from an insurer who simply doesnt give cover for pre-existing conditions and thus not pay the £30 extra.
What's bothering me and why I think I need to complain to some professional body is that they WILL insure the pre-existing genetic condition if you say NO or if you say YES but charge so much more.
The question should be "Do have any other conditions, that you haven't declared, that may make your blood more likely to clot?"
Or rather than being yet/no it should have an 'already declared' option.
It's like asking someone who has said they have asthma if they have asthma and charging them 100% more if they say yes, despite the fact they already said they had asthma.0 -
mayfair1985 wrote: »A few points that I hope may help....
1. If you want to complain, then complain to the insurer and not the medical screening company. The insurer sets the prices.
2. As mentioned above, it could be the same insurer or the same medical screening provider. Try searching for a Tokio Marine or Arch travel insurance as they do not usually use this line of questioning.
1. Tried that. They blame the medical screening company for the questions. It's not about the price, it's about the magic question that is confusing and not relevant considering the declared genetic condition.
2. I'll try that, thanks.0 -
What's bothering me and why I think I need to complain to some professional body is that they WILL insure the pre-existing genetic condition if you say NO or if you say YES but charge so much more.
The question should be "Do have any other conditions, that you haven't declared, that may make your blood more likely to clot?"
Or rather than being yet/no it should have an 'already declared' option.
It's like asking someone who has said they have asthma if they have asthma and charging them 100% more if they say yes, despite the fact they already said they had asthma.
You are then looking really at the limitation of IT systems and relatively lowly trained telephone staff (again a necessity for a £20 policy)
Whilst for very common conditions like asthma you'd hope it was programmed such that if they declare asthma at the beginning that they arent subsequently asked if they've ever had breathing problems but again in theory you can have an asthmatic that has never had an attack.
From what I read online you can be a carrier of your condition and with carriers and suffers the total population effected (in the USA) is ~5% - it doesnt say what the split is between carriers and suffers.
I am not going to claim to be an expert on your condition because I've never heard of it before but normally carriers have either no symptoms or very mild symptoms. Is it possible they want to screen between those that are carriers that say they do have it but dont actually have clotting issues?0 -
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InsideInsurance wrote: »Is it possible they want to screen between those that are carriers that say they do have it but dont actually have clotting issues?
It's quite common to have Factor 5 Leiden and NEVER have any issues. Most people that have it won't even know until they are tested for it which is only done when you have a clot issue.
Just because you have it doesn't meen you will clot just that you are more at risk of clotting when a clot would form - during surgery, when injured, if you're a smoker etc.0 -
My mother in law is 79 and has Factor 5 Leiden and she uses Medici Travel. They always cover her and they don't charge a huge amount. I think she said they charged her £80 a couple of years ago when she went to Italy.
By the way, she has also had a pulmonary embolism in the past and they still cover her. High cholesterol, high blood pressure etc etc. She takes god knows how many drugs every day including warfarin and statins.
http://www.medicitravel.com/0 -
Cottage_Economy wrote: »My mother in law is 79 and has Factor 5 Leiden and she uses Medici Travel. They always cover her and they don't charge a huge amount. I think she said they charged her £80 a couple of years ago when she went to Italy.
By the way, she has also had a pulmonary embolism in the past and they still cover her. High cholesterol, high blood pressure etc etc. She takes god knows how many drugs every day including warfarin and statins.
Nice one. Will have to check them out.
On a similar tack I posted on Insure&Go's Facebook page and they contacted me directly. The person I e-mailed confirmed the question was confusing and if I should choose them I should answer 'no' to the question and I'd still be covered. Interesting.
Edit: Tried that Medici Travel and was declined for Factor 5 Leiden. Odd.0 -
Nice one. Will have to check them out.
On a similar tack I posted on Insure&Go's Facebook page and they contacted me directly. The person I e-mailed confirmed the question was confusing and if I should choose them I should answer 'no' to the question and I'd still be covered. Interesting.
Edit: Tried that Medici Travel and was declined for Factor 5 Leiden. Odd.
That's interesting. I'm speaking to her tonight and I'll ask her. We're going away in June and she has to book her insurance this week.
Do you think destination would be a factor? She never does long haul, only short flights to (usually) France or Italy. Where are you going on holiday?
Also are you doing any activities or sports at all while you'll be away that an underwriter would construe as risky?0
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