Missing 3rd Party Loft Wall

mikeday1991

Hello everyone - first post!

My partner and I are buying our first house soon and we have just had our home buyers survey returned. A few pressing issues but one of the ones I'm finding hard to fathom is the "3rd party wall on either side in the loft is largely missing"

Now how it is missing I have no idea, so what I need to do is work out how much it's likely to cost to put right.
In this day and age I'm sure the brick will have to comply to a certain regulation, so if anyone can tell me which that will be great?
The house is a 1900-05 red brick terrace, but the wall in the loft doesn't need to match visually

Also, is this something that can be laid myself/family builder and then inspected? Does it need to be inspected? Also, is filling the gaps with, is it, Rockwool(?) sufficient?

Any other pitfalls to this, hopefully nice and easy, job?

Thanks!

Mike :j

keystone

Just shows how much these "surveyors" actually know. There probably wasn't one from the day it was built. Its the way they used to do it.

The main concern is/will be the possibility of fire spreading via the large space from one property to the other and the second concern is security. You don't want someone from next door rifling through the old knicker box nor do you want a beady peering at you in the bedroom through the small hole thats undetectable from below.

It doesn't have to be load bearing if there wasn't one originally and can be done with blockwork as a result. Not expensive. Consult your local Building Control to see what their specific requirements are.

Cheers

stef73

This was on our survey 9 years ago ours is a 1900s terrace house also, have you been in the loft yet? I have a few bricks missing on both party walls these a single bricks rather than the hole the survey made them out to be.
These holes look like there has never been bricks in these spaces as there is no mortar on the brick surrounding the holes.
Someone in the past has stuffed loft insulation in the holes one day i might brick these holes up.

daveyjp

I would advise anyone with any holes in loft party walls to brick them up asap. A single brick missing is enough to let fire spread along the roof.

mikeday1991

Unfortunately I havent been in the loft yet, the ceilings are so high and I havent got a ladder!!
As far as i know the missing bricks are mainly on one side, however the survey makes out that it is both sides. Would they have gone right into the loft, or just poked a head up do we think?

I will block them up ASAP due to the lender knowing about it now and probably wanting to re-inspect. We are due to be exchanging contracts until June. Can't decide if I should request the seller makes the improvements or try to negotiate a new price!

keystone

mikeday1991 wrote: »

Would they have gone right into the loft, or just poked a head up do we think?

The latter, probably.

I will block them up ASAP due to the lender knowing about it now and probably wanting to re-inspect.

I don't see why they should tbh unless they have the fire concerns in mind which I indicated much earlier up the thread. The "surveyor" has said theres bits missing. He hasn't written in large red letters. This is an enormous fire risk. You have to understand that house buyer's reports (if thats what you had) aren't actually worth the paper they are written on and are choc full of CYA stuff. If this report was written as part of a valuation survey then all that is for is for the lender to determine whether, having lent you x, they would actually get their money back if you resold it.

Can't decide if I should request the seller makes the improvements or try to negotiate a new price!

It is not for the vendor to be forced make "improvements" to suit the buyer. Neither do you have much of a case for a price reduction in this case. These houses have been like this for over a hundred years, were designed like that, were built like that and have been lived in like that by several (presumably) sets of occupants and they are still standing. If I was the vendor and anyone tried that on me for some perceived fault in the building I'd withdraw from the sale. Equally you have a choice. If it's a show stopper for you then you can always withdraw yourself. Nevertheless for the two reasons I indicated in post 2 you should consider addressing this matter once you are in possession and occupation. All IMO of course.

Cheers

ValHaller

mikeday1991 wrote: »

Can't decide if I should request the seller makes the improvements or try to negotiate a new price!

I doubt a seller would be keen on doing the work. Best generally for the buyer to sort these things out. As for a reduction, it is not a large job. A few hundred should cover it.

If you are into DIY, this is an excellent opportunity to practice brickwork. The hardest part is access and shipping in mortar and blocks to the workface.

mikeday1991

That's brilliant. A massive thanks for all your help on these.

I think I will just take the hit then and do it when I'm in.

Are breeze blocks suitable then? If not, I'll get some bricks to do it with.

(Apologies if the above question has been answered, I'm answering on the sneak at work!) :eek:

ValHaller

Second hand bricks will be fine for this. If you want to use blocks, check what your builder's merchant has and then check out fire resistance on the manufacturer's website. They will almost certainly come back fine, but get used to the idea of checking out your materials on the internet.

As mentioned, don't leave gaps. Plug any gaps which your brickwork does not fill with mortar.

macman

Wouldn't lightweight blockwork be more suitable, given the location? Lugging bricks into the loft is not much fun.

John_Ashtone

Keystone and Valhalla are correct.

Things to note on this, when the buildings were erected they may well have been made for one landlord, so he wasn't bothered about transit from one house to another, as it wasn't his goods likely to be stolen.

Fire spreading back then was not as fast as today, nor was smoke likely to kill you, as there were not the plastics that aree used today, and if the ceilings are quite high no one would go into the roof void, if you were renting why should you?

Indeed where there was access to the roof void this might have been used as an escape route in case of fire if there was no wall at all.

Where there are walls and individual bricks have been left out, this was probably for air circulation, to stop condensation, or smoke from coal fires drifting down into your house.

Once you have blocked up the oppropriate walls, and are laying roof insulation (check out offers a couple of years ago I increased my 75mm loft insulation to 250mm for £24 buy 1 get 2 free) ensure that fresh air can circulate into the roof void by the eaves, this stops condensation when the weather changes.

Air circulation stops condensation.