Studio flat council tax fraud: what would you do?

princeofpounds

Yes, there is a fair amount of this sort of thing going on.

Councils are not aggressive in enforcement. I don't know why.

It's similar to the 'sheds with beds' that have popped up in a few London suburbs - everyone knew what was happening but it took newspapers to embarrass councils into a crackdown.

Partially I think it's because it's labour intensive to gather evidence. But you would think professional investigators could fund their own activities and more.

I think also enforcement is hard. Lawyers, costs, and many of the people doing this sort of thing often have hidden wealth that' hard to extract.

redonion

CIS wrote: »

In summary it mandates that in any property where the occupiers only rent a part of the dwelling (i.e a room only) or the property is adapted for multiple occupancy then the owner is liable for the council tax charge.

But that then immediately raises the question "what is a dwelling", and "what does adapted for multiple occupancy mean"? Is the dwelling the building, or the studio flat? What counts as adaptation? I imagine the answer will be "it depends", but without help I haven't a hope of finding out exactly on what it depends, I think.

BigAunty

redonion wrote: »

Because it puts the flat on the council's books, I would assume, which would then make it harder for them to suggest the same wheeze to subsequent tenants, which would tend to reduce the rent they can charge.

...

All properties are on the councils books - they will inevitably have systems that have an entry for every single property in their area with details of those who are not paying council tax.

redonion

BigAunty wrote: »

All properties are on the councils books - they will inevitably have systems that have an entry for every single property in their area with details of those who are not paying council tax.

It's not really the actual record-keeping behaviour of the council that matters here - it's landlords' knowledge of it. If they suspect it might work that way, then they're likely to work on that expectation. My own expectation would be that you are indeed more likely to be picked up on if somebody was previously paying council tax and now is not, as compared to a situation where they know a building exists, but might not know how it's divided up, or other relevant details (which details are relevant is unknown to me, as I've confessed already).

If you don't agree with my explanation of how people behave, what would your explanation be for the behaviour that I've seen? (some of which you can see for yourself with a few searches on rightmove and gumtree) This is a straightforward and friendly question: I personally have no other explanation, so I'm interested to hear how you see it.

BigAunty

redonion wrote: »

It's not really the actual record-keeping behaviour of the council that matters here - it's landlords' knowledge of it. ...
If you don't agree with my explanation of how people behave, what would your explanation be for the behaviour that I've seen? (some of which you can see for yourself with a few searches on rightmove and gumtree) This is a straightforward and friendly question: I personally have no other explanation, so I'm interested to hear how you see it.

The way I see it is that it's none of your concern whether or not the landlords or their tenants are lax in their legal/financial obligations and I cannot understand why you are obsessed with an issue that is strictly not your business, since it is up to others to sort out their accounts with the council and only they have the relationship with the council.

A landlord must pay council tax in a non-HMO for all the void periods when a property does not have a tenant in it. Quite why they would not handover proof of the tenancy to the council to ensure they did not end up being clobbered with the council tax, I don't know.

If the councils are weak in their CT collection, it will be simply just another area that many councils are weak in, from bin collection to social care to housing the homeless.

It would not influence the types of properties I would seek as a tenant, secure in the knowledge that I had integrity to meet my obligations, even if others didn't.

When I claimed Job Seekers Allowance, it was absolutely no concern to me that there may be others receiving it who were not meeting the criteria to receive it or working cash in hand - that's the DWPs job to resolve, not for me to monitor suspicious fellow JSA recipients and report them.

I tend to have a philosophy not to worry about things that I can't directly influence. Your self appointed issue, something that is non-issue to me and causes me no dilemma whatsoever, would be one of them.

CIS

what does adapted for multiple occupancy mean

It is not specifically defined in law so you won't see a definition in legislation. The accepted usage in case law is that it is adapted as a property would be for a licensed HMO (fire alarms, fire doors etc) although only a valuation tribunal can make the final decision if their an argument.

what is a dwelling"

In simple terms a property which is banded and shown in the council tax list - in fuller terms it is a property which meets the criteria as defined in the general rates act 1967 (and subsequent case law).

redonion

BigAunty wrote: »

A landlord must pay council tax in a non-HMO for all the void periods when a property does not have a tenant in it. Quite why they would not handover proof of the tenancy to the council to ensure they did not end up being clobbered with the council tax, I don't know.

There's always a reason for everything, even if it's a silly one.

I tend to have a philosophy not to worry about things that I can't directly influence. Your self appointed issue, something that is non-issue to me and causes me no dilemma whatsoever, would be one of them.

Fair comment. My view up until recently was that I could influence the matter, by finding a place where the landlord doesn't say this, thereby avoiding the issue. Having met the same thing from multiple landlords, I think I've come to the same conclusion as you.

redonion

CIS wrote: »

It is not specifically defined in law so you won't see a definition in legislation. The accepted usage in case law is that it is adapted as a property would be for a licensed HMO (fire alarms, fire doors etc) although only a valuation tribunal can make the final decision if their an argument.

I feared that would be the answer ("not specifically defined in law"), but thanks for explaining!

In simple terms a property which is banded and shown in the council tax list - in fuller terms it is a property which meets the criteria as defined in the general rates act 1967 (and subsequent case law).

The first half of that answer sounds circular: Q. What's a dwelling for council tax purposes? A. One that's on the register. Q. When does a property go on the register? A. When it's a dwelling for council tax purposes.

Re the second half of your answer - The references to the general rates act in the acts that I cited earlier, plus case law, as you say - was the point at which I stopped reading, despairing that I'd get a useful answer by reading the legislation. So I'm afraid that gets me no further on understanding when the tenant of a small studio flat is liable.

Thanks again for your help, but as far as I can see I have to do as BigAunty suggests, and just ignore everything landlords say about council tax.

redonion

princeofpounds wrote: »

Partially I think it's because it's labour intensive to gather evidence. But you would think professional investigators could fund their own activities and more.

I think also enforcement is hard. Lawyers, costs, and many of the people doing this sort of thing often have hidden wealth that' hard to extract.

Since it's the tenants that are liable, I'm not sure they do often have hidden wealth to extract. And you'd think that relatively low-key enforcement measures would bring in enough income to fund it. I don't think they can be doing even that on a routine basis, or the landlord I spoke to wouldn't have been concerned about me contacting the council.

It's unfortunate if these things are being done strictly on the basis of financial reckoning: it's not good for most of us in the long run if the rules are applied erratically. On the other hand, the rules are broken enough that I wouldn't want over-zealous enforcement. A sad state of affairs - bring on a real Lib Dem government to bring in local income tax (yeah, I'm dreaming).

lincroft1710

If the studio flat comprises a dwelling in CT law i.e. it has facilities and room for washing, sleeping, eating, living, preparation of food plus a WC then it should have its own CT band and in the hierarchy of liability, the tenant would be liable for the CT bill.