Umbrella corporations & holiday pay

Infidelus

Hi

I don't seem to be able to post in the CAB forum, so hope this one's OK.

I started working for a temp agency (Wild Recruitment) last December. In January they were bought by (or partnered with) an umbrella corporation called Ntech Professional Services.

Since they've taken over paying my wages, I'm getting the distinct impression they are diddling me on my holiday pay. I've asked Wild to contact them for an breakdown on my wage (and they have), but so far Ntech haven't bothered replying.

As an example, For my last temp job, I was told the hourly rate was £7 Monday - Friday, and £8 for Saturday & Sunday.

I got a text from Ntech today telling me how much I'd get paid for last week's work:

Gross - £273
Net - £244.10

The hours I did last week were:

4 x 7.5 hour days @ £7/hr = £210
1 x 9 hour day @ £7/hr = £63
Making a total of £273.

The payslip I receive does actually separate basic pay and holiday pay, but as you can see, both of these combined still only add up to the £7 basic rate I was told I would get.

The Ntech terms & conditions state

In each holiday year your holiday entitlement will be 28 days. It is a requirement of your employment that you take your full holiday entitlement. Your 28 days holiday must be taken at times convenient to the employer.

12.07% of your weekly payment represents payment of your entitlement to paid annual leave. This is paid each week with your wages. This means that you will receive payment in advance for the time you eventually take off as holiday each week and you will not receive payment when you are on holiday. This is what is known as 'rolled-up' holiday pay and basically ensures that you receive your full holiday entitlement.

I also found the following on the gov.uk website:

Rolled-up holiday pay
Holiday pay should be paid for the time when annual leave is taken. An employer cannot include an amount for holiday pay in the hourly rate (known as ‘rolled-up holiday pay’). If a current contract still includes rolled-up pay, it needs to be re-negotiated.

This is where I believe Ntech are either on the fiddle, or I'm just not understanding how it's actually supposed to work, so I'm hoping somebody here can shed light on the matter.

Thanks

anamenottaken

Infidelus wrote: »

Hi

I don't seem to be able to post in the CAB forum, so hope this one's OK.

I started working for a temp agency (Wild Recruitment) last December. In January they were bought by (or partnered with) an umbrella corporation called Ntech Professional Services.

Since they've taken over paying my wages, I'm getting the distinct impression they are diddling me on my holiday pay. I've asked Wild to contact them for an breakdown on my wage (and they have), but so far Ntech haven't bothered replying.

As an example, For my last temp job, I was told the hourly rate was £7 Monday - Friday, and £8 for Saturday & Sunday.

I got a text from Ntech today telling me how much I'd get paid for last week's work:

Gross - £273
Net - £244.10

The hours I did last week were:

4 x 7.5 hour days @ £7/hr = £210
1 x 9 hour day @ £7/hr = £63
Making a total of £273.

The payslip I receive does actually separate basic pay and holiday pay, but as you can see, both of these combined still only add up to the £7 basic rate I was told I would get.

The Ntech terms & conditions state

In each holiday year your holiday entitlement will be 28 days. It is a requirement of your employment that you take your full holiday entitlement. Your 28 days holiday must be taken at times convenient to the employer.

12.07% of your weekly payment represents payment of your entitlement to paid annual leave. This is paid each week with your wages. This means that you will receive payment in advance for the time you eventually take off as holiday each week and you will not receive payment when you are on holiday. This is what is known as 'rolled-up' holiday pay and basically ensures that you receive your full holiday entitlement.

I also found the following on the gov.uk website:

Rolled-up holiday pay
Holiday pay should be paid for the time when annual leave is taken. An employer cannot include an amount for holiday pay in the hourly rate (known as ‘rolled-up holiday pay’). If a current contract still includes rolled-up pay, it needs to be re-negotiated.

This is where I believe Ntech are either on the fiddle, or I'm just not understanding how it's actually supposed to work, so I'm hoping somebody here can shed light on the matter.

Thanks

They can't even get the sum right for what would constitute rolled up holiday pay. The 12.07% is in addition to whatever the basic rate. If they want to work out the basic rate and simply deduct 12.07%, ie say that 87.93% is the basic rate they are underpaying statutory holiday pay.

What were you paid before they were taken over?

Infidelus

anamenottaken wrote: »

They can't even get the sum right for what would constitute rolled up holiday pay. The 12.07% is in addition to whatever the basic rate. If they want to work out the basic rate and simply deduct 12.07%, ie say that 87.93% is the basic rate they are underpaying statutory holiday pay.

What were you paid before they were taken over?

Thanks for the reply.

The only assignment I've done for Wild before Ntech came into the picture was a three week job in December.

For that particular role I was being paid £7.50/hr for a 37.5 hour week, which worked out to £281.25 gross and £239.99 net.

I also received an additional £72.75 in total holiday pay for that job.

anamenottaken

Infidelus wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

The only assignment I've done for Wild before Ntech came into the picture was a three week job in December.

For that particular role I was being paid £7.50/hr for a 37.5 hour week, which worked out to £281.25 gross and £239.99 net.

I also received an additional £72.75 in total holiday pay for that job.

If the £72.75 was nett pay then that looks about right.

And looking back at your first post, if they say 12.07% of the £7 is rolled up holiday pay then they aren't paying you the national minimum wage if you are 21 or older.

Infidelus

anamenottaken wrote: »

If the £72.75 was nett pay then that looks about right.

And looking back at your first post, if they say 12.07% of the £7 is rolled up holiday pay then they aren't paying you the national minimum wage if you are 21 or older.

That's pretty much what I'd worked out previously. I did forget to mention one other thing, whether it's related or not.

As part of this 'umbrella' payment scheme, and I'm sure you probably already know, we do get to claim for expenses, although it's just used so we pay less tax as opposed to going into our wages.

Basically, you take your gross sum, deduct any expenses (last week's being £72.12), then you pay tax on that amount, then re-add the expenses.

PS, yes I'm significantly older than 21. I am in fact currently the answer to the great question of life, the universe and everything

getmore4less

whats on the pay slip?

Infidelus

getmore4less wrote: »

whats on the pay slip?

I'm actually still waiting for this weeks to arrive in the post. All I've had so far is a text from Ntech with gross/net.

Will post back when it arrives.

Infidelus

Somewhat delayed, but the postman finally came this morning.

I've uploaded a copy of my payslip (and hopefully removed all the personally identifiable information)

http / !!!!!!!.com/cs638ex

Apparently I can't post links, so hopefully this works with just adding spaces. (the !!!!! is tiny url (without the space) - wow they really don't like links here )

As mentioned, it looks to me like they're making my basic pay inclusive of my holiday pay, unless I'm totally misreading it.

Infidelus

I had a not very productive 'chat' with Ntech earlier.

They're basically saying they're only paying what the agency tell them to, and that if I didn't like it, tough 'cos I signed a contract.

I tried pointing out to the guy at the other end of the phone that I'd agreed an hourly rate of £7, but as far as he's concerned that's inclusive of holiday pay.

I also made a miscalculation with my wage. They are actually paying 'just' above minimum wage - about £6.24 - £6.25 an hour, although that's still not what I thought I'd agreed to when I accepted the job.

I also found the following on an employment solicitor's website:

1) it is contrary to the working time directive for holiday pay for statutory holidays to be rolled up into normal pay instead of actually being paid during the holiday.
2) Countries who are members of the EC must take ‘appropriate measures’ to ensure that the practice of rolling up ceases.
3) However sums already paid would still count towards pay for holidays.

The UK government didn’t immediately say the rolled up holiday pay was unlawful but about a year after the decision it did do so. It is suspected that that delay was designed to allow employers to change their policies. In fact, it says "Holiday pay should be paid for the time when you actually take your holiday. Your employer cannot include an amount for holiday pay in your hourly rate (called 'rolled-up holiday pay'). If your current contract still includes rolled-up pay, you and your employer should renegotiate it." If it does not renegotiate it there is a risk that the worker or employee will bring a tribunal action.

The bit in bold being exactly what Wild/Ntech are doing.

The lady from wild I usually deal with called me back after I'd spoken to Ntech, which was quite brave of her, as I was quite frankly fuming.

I've emailed her a copy of the Ntech contract and she's hopefully going to get back to me tomorrow.

LittleVoice

I see MSE doesn't like tiny url as, though I can normally post links, it won't let me for this one and you can't even write it as one word.

I see they do actually quote that the payment includes holiday pay of £27.27. That isn't actually "rolled up". They are at least showing it as a separate item, which is lawful. To be rolled up, it means that the holiday pay element is included in the actual rate given for the time worked. If you like, it is "rolled in".

But there's no item for expenses. What's happened to that?

Infidelus

The expenses amount is shown on the bottom 1/2 of the payslip (with all the (COPY ONLY) text.

I'd agree that they are actually showing the holiday pay separately, but ...

I agreed to an hourly rate of £7 for this particular job, not £6.24.

The bold bit I quoted above from the solicitor's website I found also says they can't do what they're doing:

Your employer cannot include an amount for holiday pay in your hourly rate (called 'rolled-up holiday pay')

This is where I think Ntech/Wild are in the wrong. The guy I spoke to at Ntech today said that that's exactly what they do. The £7/hr includes my holiday pay.

I am of course accepting that what this employment solicitor has written is accurate.

I can't link it (obviously) but if you Google "steen & co rolled up holiday pay" (without the quotes), you'll find the link to the full document.