Question about ATOS form and potential assessment

redskyatnight_2

I hope someone can advise. My sister has a chronic illness and has been on DLA since 2007 and IB since 2008. She worked for 30 years, but it became increasingly hard, and she had to throw in the towel and go on disability benefits.

She got a letter from the DWP the other week saying that she was going to be reassessed for ESA, and a few days later, somebody called her from jobcentre plus, and asked her 4 or 5 questions, and said that the form will be with her soon.

It came today, and to her dread and fear, it's ATOS who is dealing with it (as they do with most I believe,)

I have heard the most awful things about ATOS, that they try and trick you, and if you can attend the interview, you can hold a pen and write, and you 'look smart,' you are capable of working,

My sister attends an arthritis clinic 3-monthly, and she is on methotrexate, diclofenac and strong pain killers; and recent blood tests and X rays and assessments have confirmed her illness is very much rife. 3 months ago, she asked the council if they could consider her for a bungalow, as it's so hard for her to go up the stairs.

She is in some degree of pain at least 60-65% the time, and can barely do a THING for the first 2 hours of the day as her joints are so bad. She struggles to open things, (like bottles and jars and cans) and has things to aid her. Sometimes when she get up from her seat, you can see her wincing with pain.

So the questions are:

1. How many people who fill in the 'capability for work' assessment form actually get hauled in for an assessment? ie' what percentage of people?

2. Of the people who DO get hauled in, how many are deemed 'fit for work,' and get taken off benefits? (the percentage?)

3. Is someone with a chronic illness - that is never going to get better - less likely to get taken off benefits than people with other illnesses or conditions? Like someone who hurt their back at work 5 years ago, or someone who has a condition you can't see physically?

She is worried sick, as she keeps reading about very ill people, mental AND physical illnesses, who have been supposedly 'tricked,' and even that ATOS have lied about what happened at the assessments, in an attempt to get the people off benefits, as they get some kind of 'commission' for every person they get off benefits.

Or are they not as bad now, as they were in the beginning? Because I know they have been slammed by a lot of people and organisations for being so harsh and for allegedly lying.

Any advice welcome. Thank you.

redskyatnight_2

Anyone ???

rogerblack

Addressing some of this only.

redskyatnight wrote: »

It came today, and to her dread and fear, it's ATOS who is dealing with it (as they do with most I believe,)

I have heard the most awful things about ATOS, that they try and trick you, and if you can attend the interview, you can hold a pen and write, and you 'look smart,' you are capable of working,

Firstly, it's vital to understand that ESA is _NOT_ gotten because you can't work.
It's gotten because you meet the various legal tests as outlined on http://www.tameside.gov.uk/esa/wca#LCW

Much of the unfairness laid at ATOSs door is in fact due to the intentional design of the benefit by parliament.

1. How many people who fill in the 'capability for work' assessment form actually get hauled in for an assessment? ie' what percentage of people?

All of the rest of these questions are basically irrelevant. They may have answers, but they're not helpful.

See the above descriptors, and the ones for the support group.
http://www.tameside.gov.uk/esa/lcwra

If they can't assess that you are entitled to one of the groups based on the papers you supply, and the ones you hold, they will call you for an interview.

You may find http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/esalaw.htm of use, along with
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/%40dg/%40en/%40disabled/documents/digitalasset/dg_177366.pdf useful.

Confuseddot

Not much to add to above nut the more evidence you can provide and send with the form tends to help.

dibdabable

Agree with rogerblack, you might also want to visit a site called,
http://benefitsandwork.co.uk/

It's vitally important that you/sister understands what the different descriptors mean and how your/her activities of daily living are affected by the illness she has. It's kind of irrelevant unless you are terminally ill, what your diagnosis is it's all about how the illness affects you/her.
Many people with Arthritis are able to work, but many aren't so it's important to look at how she is affected by the illness not that she simply has it. The site mentionmed above makes the descriptors very clear I think at present for about £16 you can subscribe for a year and I have never heard anyone say anything but good things about the site.
What it really enables you to do is to pinpoint how your illness makes it difficult for you to for example; sit or stand or a combination of the two. You have to really identify the ares of need and disability.

There's no sure way of knowing how your sister's application will be dealt with, it will be assessed on paper and it will then be decided whether there's enough evidence on paper for them to make a decision there and then or if they'll need to see your sister face to face. This is the stage that you will no doubt have heard some of the horror stories. Take heart though. If after being assessed face to face they were not to decided in her favour, it doesn't stop there as in an Appeal can be lodged. I can't stress how important it is therefore getting that ESA50 form as detailed as possible and send all that you can which would give supporting evidence to show that for example, if your sister can't sit for long periods does she have Scans X rays etc which would suggest that this is likely.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the problems need to be present for the majority of the time, so it's not so much that an activity can never be met, but that for the majority of the time it wouldn't be possible because of pain stiffness breathlessness etc. Activities also need to be done, safely repeatedly and in a timely manner, whatever that means. So again, you can bring these into your comments on the form.
Some are yes and no answers some varies. So if for 80% of the time she can't sit for 30 mins but for the rest of the time she can and you have a yes or no answer, you'd answer no and use the box to explain why even though the activity can be done for 20% of the time.

Hope that makes some sense. You'll have been given a date by which this needs to be sent, so make sure you allow time for this including postage. They don't get it wrong all the time and get it right a lot of the time, but there have been a lot of newsworthy cases where they've got it spectacularly wrong. Just be honest and and follow the guidelines and then it's just a case of waitng. So good luck.

redskyatnight_2

The posts I have received have been MASSIVELY helpful, thank you SO much!!! That site with the descriptor thingies were invaluable information, and going by them, my sister will definitely qualify for ESA based on the form, that is. Whether they call her in for as assessment and decide differently, remains to be seen.

However, I am sorry to bother people further, but does anybody have any idea what percentage of people who send this ESA form in are called in for an assessment, and also the percentage of people who 'are' assessed, actually get taken off benefit.

Thanks once again.

dibdabable

I'm really pleased that the info you've gaine dhere is helpful. The other questions you've asked are almost impossible to answer.
If someone told you they'd only be giving you a rough guess from statistics most of us just don't have.
There are many individuals who send off questions to DWP under the Freedom of Information Act such as yours and have very obscure or answers insufficient to the query.

The first question how many people get called in will I believe be very dependent on the way the ESA50 is filled in and how much evidence there is to back things up. So if they've enough on paper, they won't call your sister in. As far as I know and someone will correct me if this is incorrect but they will not find her fit for work on the papers only

The second question how many are taken off, well if you pay attention to the irresponsible journalism of papers like the daily mail, who suggested that two thirds of claimants could work, they make no distinction between those who could work being in WRAG and not simply able to work or allow for ayone appealing the decision. Statistics are varied but 41% fit for work decisions have been appealed and as many as 38% of those have been found in favour of the claimant. Now imagine those who have no one to help and support them and simply accept the decision, the numbers could be a lot different.

All I can say is that the reason I believe people do well in their WCA's or simply from their ESA50's is because they know the importance of answering questions honestly and describing what is the case for the majority of the time and also by not being persuaded to say more or less.I hope that helps you further.

Just found this for the first part of your question
http://dwpexamination.org/forum/general-discussion/how-many-called-to-assessment-after-filling-esa50/

epitome

Send the questionaire back in good time and send it recorded delivery, it could be the best £1 you have ever spent on postage.

mazza111

First of all to try and reassure you. Many people come to forums when they are having problems, maybe that's why you see so many of the stories.

I have faced ATOS assessments for a few years both through my work, and through my ill health for ESA and have been treated fairly and with respect at all times.

My daughter was a totally different story, but I won't go into that.

Guess what I'm trying to say is, don't worry about snow that might never fall. And face it when you come to it.

Please let us know how you get on though

ps2659

Family friend is at her wits end since going to an atos appointment just over a year ago and scoring no points then she wrote in to appeal and after a few weeks was reconsidered and placed in the wrag group she attended a work interview at the job centre and the guy told her to appeal the decision and they have reconsidered again placing her now in the support group.
On the 10th of March 2013 I think she said she recieves a letter from atos to fill in a limited work capability questionaire then a week later she received a letter from the department for work and pensions to say we have looked again at our decision and will place you in the support group, does she need to fill in the atos questionaire now that she has been placed in the support group as it seems the decision was made by DWP after the letter from atos was sent out.
Thank in advance for any help.

Xign

I have to say I spoke to an Assesor today from ATOS and he seemed a genuinely nice bloke. I know there are loads of stories of how bad they are but people only tend to post negative stories. Not positives.