Living in a housing association property - poor Kitchen and Bathroom, advice please

djh77

Afternoon all,

I posted in here quite some time back. I will just do a little re-cap. We currently live in a 2 bed housing association flat. I posted in here after some advice as we were basically (or I felt) outgrowing the flat (2 children and a 3rd on the way in a couple of weeks). We got a lot of good advice here, so I was after some more.

We have found someone with a 3 bed house to do a mutual exchange with. It is actually my father-in-law. He lives in a 3 bed housing association house on his own and wants to downsize, he can't manage the property anymore. I had not been round his house for about 6 years, the wife for about 5 years. I approached us about a month ago and said he couldn't manage it anymore and would we be interested in exchanging. It isn't really the area we want as we have to change our kids schools, but 3 bed housing associations are at a premium, and we, to be honest, are not going to turn it down. We are grateful to be lucky enough to have somewhere.

However, he did say he had let the house go and we would need to help him clear it out. To give you a picture, when we went round there you could hardly get in the front door. We have, over the last month, disposed of 6 fridges/freezers, 4 car bumpers, 7 tyres, interiors of cars (ie dashboards, seats etc). We have a ford Galaxy and the wife has a Vauxhall Vivaro van and we have made, so far, 16 trips to the tidy tip to clear rubbish. He smokes and has been afraid to open doors/windows due to debt collectors so walls/ceilings etc are all brown, nearly black in the kitchen. The carpets are just really oil rags.

Anyway, all of that we are prepared to do, put the time and money into getting the house around. But, our 2 biggest area's of concern are the Bathroom and Kitchen. Both are 33 years old. The upstairs bathroom, the bath is cracked and obviously old, very tatty etc. The downstairs toilet is cracked as well. Bathroom, not so worried about. The Kitchen however is terrible. Most of the cupboards have come away from the walls, and some have doors off. The laminate surface on the worktops has almost all gone and big chunks out of the wood underneath. It doesn't, apart from the sink, really serve any purpose anymore.

I spoke to the HA about it. My father-in-law had a letter about 4 years ago saying that they wanted to replace the kitchen. He told them he didn't want it done (due to debt collectors etc). The HA have now said that the kitchen is not due for renewal until 2029. The bathroom is due for change next year, so that is all okay, we can tart it up slightly until then. They have told me that I can replace the kitchen if I want, but have to get someone qualified to do it, ie plumber.

We will not give up the house just because the kitchen is bad, however does anyone know of any law/rule that state they HA have to replace the kitchen? As I said we are not ungrateful for the house and we will take it regardless, it's just I rather not have to spend out £10k or whatever it will cost for a new kitchen if I can 'force' the HA to replace the kitchen. To me it is a health issue, but not sure if I can use this or not.

RAS

You do not need to pay £10K for a kitchen.

In the short-term ferret round freecycle and freegle for units (try to get some design ideas from the kitchen shops first). Then buy or make new doors to make them look the same (or paint them all the same colour).

You need proper tradepeople to replace the sink unit and drains, do any electricity work and fit any gas. Otherwise you could do this yourself.

shonzyd

there is no specific law rule that they have to replace the kitchen after a certain age so no on that one.

With a mutual exchange my understanding is that you are accepting the property as it is and waive the right to repairs within a certain period after the exchange (i work for a HA) - it might be diff for your HA.

To move into a place knowing the kitchen is falling apart and to then demand it to be replaced??? Dont think you'll get very far with that one.

its your choice whether you accept it or not, and if you do, be prepared to spend on it yourself or make do til they do get round to any replacement.

And if any damage is not wear and tear the HA could charge your father in law for that - presuambly they will inspect the property before the exchange takes place too and highlight any neglect. It may be picked up that he has failed to report repairs rather than the HS failing to act on repair requests.

*Robin*

A friend of mine faced this last year. He didn't really want the workmen in as it wasn't a good time for him, but he was told very firmly that unless he agreed to the work being carried out at the same time as his neighbours, then his HA would not replace his kitchen until next time all the houses on the estate were being updated (at least 20 years).

As your FIL refused access, he's probably in the same position.

Obviously it is much easier and more economical to send teams of workmen to update neighbouring properties together, so it's not surprising the HA have not budgeted for improving odd properties whenever the tenant decides they are ready to allow the workmen access.

But a new kitchen needn't cost 10K. Friend's son bought a much better set of units than the HA were putting in, off eb@y; total cost including fitting was under 2K.

Good luck with your exchange, djh77.

djh77

No, we are not trying to move in then demand it be replaced. I was trying to ascertain if we could ask them to do it, or get them to do it, before we move in. But, as you have said, with a ME we accept the property in the condition it is in. We have no issue with that tbh. We think we are looking at about 4k to put the house in a live-able condition (new carpets, paint, new internal doors, garden etc). All of this will be done over time. I just seem to remember an environmental health law about worksurfaces in the kitchen having to be free from major cuts into them etc. Might be imagining that though.

I would suggest that a bathroom and kitchen that has last the best part of 34 years is fair wear and tear, whatever the condition they are in. We have had a look on ebay for 2nd hand kitchens, but I am not sure how to fit them. I am pretty sure we would need someone out to re plaster the wall, make it straight etc. The actual fitting of the units would not be an issue I don't think, but obviously the worktops, cut to size and straight, would be an issue, and I would need someone to do that.

djh77

Oh, Shonzyd, do you think if I turned around to the HA and said I would pay for them to get their workmen to fit the Kitchen they would do it for me? I am guessing that the HA get it a lot cheaper than I could/would do, so was wondering if I offered to pay for the work to be done, they would arrange it for me?

I know the HA we are going to be with have a policy to change the Kitchen every 20 years and bathroom every 25 years, but as has been said, because he refused to have it done, he/we now have to wait for the next 'scheduled' change.

Helen2k8

djh77 wrote: »

Oh, Shonzyd, do you think if I turned around to the HA and said I would pay for them to get their workmen to fit the Kitchen they would do it for me? I am guessing that the HA get it a lot cheaper than I could/would do, so was wondering if I offered to pay for the work to be done, they would arrange it for me?

I know the HA we are going to be with have a policy to change the Kitchen every 20 years and bathroom every 25 years, but as has been said, because he refused to have it done, he/we now have to wait for the next 'scheduled' change.

My experience with housing associations is that their workmen tend to be "cheap" rather than "good". Now that's not to say a workman/contractor can't be both, but just bear that in mind. Perhaps ask if they can recommend someone to quote for the job, and get another quote yourself?

Kayles86

I used to work for a HA, they will make repairs where possible but will not replace the kitchen until it is on their rota. Obviously, the current tennant refused (I dont get what the debt collectors have to do with anything) and therefore moved the property to the back of the queue. If you wanted to pay for the kitchen to be replaced it is always possible that if you offer to contribute a sizeable sum towards the cost then they may contribute as it is in their interest but this is not a guarantee. Best bet is that if you really want the property you move in under the assumption that you will have to do any refurbs yourself (for which you would probably need their approval for).

gayleanne

When you do a mutual exchange, inspectors go into the lettings, and if they find any thing wrong with the lettings, they advise the tenants that are living there, that they will not agree to the exchange until what ever is wrong is put right. Usually this is damage that has been caused, by the tenants. As your FIL had refused to have a kitchen put in when they came to do it, they will not put in a new kitchen, until 2029, OR if your FIL gives up the right to live there, and hands the house back to the HA. If that was to happen, they would then completely gut the kitchen and bathroom, and paint and decorate, before handing it over to new tenants. This will only happen if your FIL hands the house back to the HA, which means that there is very little likelihood of your getting it.

But as this is to be a mutual exchange, you have to sign that you will accept the house as it is. I know that some contracts also say that there will be no repair work done for the first 6 months, unless it is life threatening, ie. they won't come out to fix a light switch or broken window catch, but they will come out if you have water leak, or the boiler breaks down, or the roof blows off.

When I worked for a HA if someone decided to fit a new bathroom or kitchen, the work had to be inspected, and they also had to provide a certificate from a corgi gas fitter, or a bonafide plumber that the work had been done to a professional standard.

There are often kitchens on freecycle, for free, from people who are changing there kitchens, also freeads often have them. If you do go ahead, and do this exchange, you are accepting the house as it is, so it will mean either you put a kitchen in or wait until 2029, it dosen't cost 10K for a kitchen you can get some really nice ones, for even as low as 1,000, it is the fitting that costs the money.

vintagebrighton

You don't need a fitted kitchen costing a fortune. When I did a ME, the council kitchen was appalling and consisted of a sink unit and one cupboard but was huge. I found an Ikea freestanding kitchen in gumtree, paid a man and van to pick it up and a handyman to plumb in the sink and put up the wall cupboards I wanted, the remainder I sold on ebay. Total cost - less than £500 for a great kitchen. Be inventive to get the home you want

djh77

Cheers for all the replies people. He didnt want the kitchen fitted due to debt collectors. He owes over 7 years in council tax alone and the baliffs call every other day. He was worried with workmen being in and out all day the door would be left open and the baliffs would just walk in.

As I said actually buying a kitchen is not a problem, there are nice ones on ebay going for about £300. The issue I have is fitting them and re-tiling etc. Guess I am best to wait until I get in there and then get someone round to give me a quote on fitting a kitchen.