Something positive in a brown envelope!

Brassedoff

Roxy07 wrote: »

It's nice to hear good news about ESA rather then all the doom and gloom threads. I'm sure there's more positive stories but people rather post the bad stuff.

I sent in a very lengthly ESA50, all backed up with evidence, witness statements etc and was put in the support group (although I only get £5.68 a week in credits). I suppose I will have to go through the same process next year at the annual check time.

I have the same computerised version ready for when they send the PIP through.

Too often, people send their forms in, poorly researched, poorly written and go off on one when they get called into a medical

helentay_2

Brassedoff wrote: »

I sent in a very lengthly ESA50, all backed up with evidence, witness statements etc and was put in the support group (although I only get £5.68 a week in credits). I suppose I will have to go through the same process next year at the annual check time.

I have the same computerised version ready for when they send the PIP through.

Too often, people send their forms in, poorly researched, poorly written and go off on one when they get called into a medical

I thought that it was entirely down to the DWP to get to the truth of every claim whether someone has/has not got the intelligence or ability to complete these forms to that extent and/or have the knowledge and/or the ability to gather suitable evidence.

Since when has it been all about how professional you can complete these forms and supply evidence?
Are you suggesting that there is a two tier system in place?

The intelligent ones get a better deal than those that aren't?

Parva

helentay wrote: »

I thought that it was entirely down to the DWP to get to the truth of every claim whether someone has/has not got the intelligence or ability to complete these forms to that extent and/or have the knowledge and/or the ability to gather suitable evidence.

Since when has it been all about how professional you can complete these forms and supply evidence?
Are you suggesting that there is a two tier system in place?

The intelligent ones get a better deal than those that aren't?

Don't twist what was posted. It is well known that you are an advocate of supplying zero evidence and you'll happily persue them for however many months it takes via appeals and whatnot. The vast majority of genuine claimants don't have sufficient funds in place to be able to persue this route nor the physical or mental abilities required to do so. Whilst you might want to try and stretch ATOS and/or the DWP to the limit just for the hell of it the majority of people do not need nor want the additional stress that could quite possibly be avoided by providing the evidence in the first place.

helentay_2

Parva wrote: »

Don't twist what was posted. It is well known that you are an advocate of supplying zero evidence and you'll happily persue them for however many months it takes via appeals and whatnot. The vast majority of genuine claimants don't have sufficient funds in place to be able to persue this route nor the physical or mental abilities required to do so. Whilst you might want to try and stretch ATOS and/or the DWP to the limit just for the hell of it the majority of people do not need nor want the additional stress that could quite possibly be avoided by providing the evidence in the first place.

Since when have I advocated that notion?

I made a sensible comment to a post made by Brassedoff. Their post seemed to indicate that it was the absolute minimum that claimants should submit a 'very lengthly ESA50, all backed up with evidence, witness statements etc.'

And that people are well advised to have a 'computerised version ready for when they send the PIP through.'

Brassedoff goes further to point out that 'Too often, people send their forms in, poorly researched, poorly written and go off on one when they get called into a medical.'

All of that suggests to me that unless you are well versed in completing DWP forms and have the insight and ability to be able to gather supporting evidence, you are doomed! Surely this means a two tier system as I pointed out?

Parva

helentay wrote: »

Since when have I advocated that notion?

I made a sensible comment to a post made by Brassedoff. Their post seemed to indicate that it was the absolute minimum that claimants should submit a 'very lengthly ESA50, all backed up with evidence, witness statements etc.'

And that people are well advised to have a 'computerised version ready for when they send the PIP through.'

Brassedoff goes further to point out that 'Too often, people send their forms in, poorly researched, poorly written and go off on one when they get called into a medical.'

All of that suggests to me that unless you are well versed in completing DWP forms and have the insight and ability to be able to gather supporting evidence, you are doomed! Surely this means a two tier system as I pointed out?

No, it means that you advocate sending ZERO evidence in and arguing the toss about it afterwards! All well and good if you have sufficient savings to hold out for what could be a year or more. Alas, you keep getting accounts banned and I cannot quote you directly (although I'm sure others will find it) but I know full well what you have said in the past about not providing ATOS with any evidence whatsoever, as I know you do. Don't even think about denying that you're 'Andy' as we've come to 'affectionately' know you.

In these uncertain times of disability bashing we certainly do not need your bile. I'm sure you'll be banned yet again shortly and then you'll be back again with your perverse pleasure of making the vulnerable worry about what's to come.

helentay_2

Parva wrote: »

No, it means that you advocate sending ZERO evidence in and arguing the toss about it afterwards! All well and good if you have sufficient savings to hold out for what could be a year or more. Alas, you keep getting accounts banned and I cannot quote you directly (although I'm sure others will find it) but I know full well what you have said in the past about not providing ATOS with any evidence whatsoever, as I know you do. Don't even think about denying that you're 'Andy' as we've come to 'affectionately' know you.

In these uncertain times of disability bashing we certainly do not need your bile. I'm sure you'll be banned yet again shortly and then you'll be back again with your perverse pleasure of making the vulnerable worry about what's to come.

I'm sorry, and I'm trying to keep my patience with you, but I do not and never have advocated to send in an ESA50 without any backing evidence primarilly it seems from your comments - to wind up the DWP or ATOS.

If you can show me where I personally have offered that advice I will apologise. Seeing that I haven't I don't even need to consider it.

Listen if you are trying to get off on one by trying to wind me up you are partially succeeding.
For the final time I haven't got a bloody clue what you are on about or even who this andy person is.

Now can we go back to the question I raised please?

I made a sensible comment to a post made by Brassedoff. Their post seemed to indicate that it was the absolute minimum that claimants should submit a 'very lengthly ESA50, all backed up with evidence, witness statements etc.'

And that people are well advised to have a 'computerised version ready for when they send the PIP through.'

Brassedoff goes further to point out that 'Too often, people send their forms in, poorly researched, poorly written and go off on one when they get called into a medical.'

All of that suggests to me that unless you are well versed in completing DWP forms and have the insight and ability to be able to gather supporting evidence, you are doomed! Surely this means a two tier system as I pointed out?

I feel that this is an important subject especially where those people that find difficulty in completing forms are involved.

Brassedoff

helentay wrote: »

I thought that it was entirely down to the DWP to get to the truth of every claim whether someone has/has not got the intelligence or ability to complete these forms to that extent and/or have the knowledge and/or the ability to gather suitable evidence.

Since when has it been all about how professional you can complete these forms and supply evidence?
Are you suggesting that there is a two tier system in place?

The intelligent ones get a better deal than those that aren't?

So what's wrong with being prepared? If you have a condition YOU are best placed to know how it affects YOU! YOU are the one who has people around YOU who know what or how it affects YOU!

Not some administrator in a far flung DWP office.

Your point is nonsense, totally and complete. You clearly have never read the ESA50! Particularly the questions posed that say "please described how your condition affects you on a day to day basis" "please describe in your own words how your condition affects you on a daily basis"

YOU have a duty to yourself to complete the forms in the best way to ensure you get what's entitled to you. Not the DWP's! It's no good windging on here or anywhere else because you expect some far flung person to be a clairvoyant! There's not two tier system. Any decision maker can only make a decision based on the information provided. If they don't have it, they have a fall back. It's called ATOS. You go to a HCP, who may disagree with you and believe you can do SOME sort of work. Therefore you lose, you end up in WRAG or less.

There's support systems for nearly every interest group, or forums such as this or B&W to garner further help.

Stop expecting to be spoon fed, or can you not provide sufficient information because YOU are not as disabled or ill as you like to claim you are? You live with it, not me. You can describe it, not me.

judexx

JustFor30 wrote: »

Just thought I'd give people waiting on ESA news some positive news. After my ESA50 sent back in January, today I got a letter saying I have been moved from WRAG to support group after renewal.
One question, how do I find out when I will recieve another ESA50?

:j

Congratulations - what good news :beer:

Write to them (DWP) and ask for a copy of the ESA85 (or ESA85A if you didn't have a medical) - this should give you some idea of what's been recommended.

helentay_2

Brassedoff wrote: »

So what's wrong with being prepared? If you have a condition YOU are best placed to know how it affects YOU! YOU are the one who has people around YOU who know what or how it affects YOU!

Not some administrator in a far flung DWP office.

Your point is nonsense, totally and complete. You clearly have never read the ESA50! Particularly the questions posed that say "please described how your condition affects you on a day to day basis" "please describe in your own words how your condition affects you on a daily basis"

YOU have a duty to yourself to complete the forms in the best way to ensure you get what's entitled to you. Not the DWP's! It's no good windging on here or anywhere else because you expect some far flung person to be a clairvoyant! There's not two tier system. Any decision maker can only make a decision based on the information provided. If they don't have it, they have a fall back. It's called ATOS. You go to a HCP, who may disagree with you and believe you can do SOME sort of work. Therefore you lose, you end up in WRAG or less.

There's support systems for nearly every interest group, or forums such as this or B&W to garner further help.

Stop expecting to be spoon fed, or can you not provide sufficient information because YOU are not as disabled or ill as you like to claim you are? You live with it, not me. You can describe it, not me.

All I am saying is that there are people (claimants) that, shall we say, are not literate or understand exactly what the ESA50 or indeed any government from is about. They fill it in to the best of their ability, which obviously is probably very limited, and send it off. They wouldn't have the faintest of what evidence to send or even where to get it from!

There are 1,000's of people like this who claim a benefit, and probably it is more by luck than judgement that they receive an award.

For that poster to make this comment:

I sent in a very lengthly ESA50, all backed up with evidence, witness statements etc and was put in the support group....Too often, people send their forms in, poorly researched, poorly written and go off on one when they get called into a medical

seems to suggest that everybody should do likewise, and then continues to criticise those that don't or can't!

Not everybody has the same ability when it comes to making claims for a benefit. That is why it would appear from the posting that there is a two tier system - Those that complete a very lengthly ESA50, all backed up with evidence, witness statements etc are the ones that would appear to get the better award. The rest that can just about string a sentence together through no fault of their own, would appear to be at the mercy of the DWP/ATOS on what happens to them.

To me that is totally unfair!!

I thought that the DWP were responsible to ensure that there is a 'level playing field' amongst claimants of all levels of ability. It seems that you think that they shouldn't! Blame the claimant, why not, they are responsible for ensuring that their level of knowledge of the DWP processes as well as to how best complete these forms should be equal to those whose job it is to advise!

Like they say, and no doubt that you will agree, that money buys justice and that intelligence buys the best benefit award.

Brassedoff

helentay wrote: »

All I am saying is that there are people (claimants) that, shall we say, are not literate or understand exactly what the ESA50 or indeed any government from is about. They fill it in to the best of their ability, which obviously is probably very limited, and send it off. They wouldn't have the faintest of what evidence to send or even where to get it from!

There are 1,000's of people like this who claim a benefit, and probably it is more by luck than judgement that they receive an award.

For that poster to make this comment:

I sent in a very lengthly ESA50, all backed up with evidence, witness statements etc and was put in the support group....Too often, people send their forms in, poorly researched, poorly written and go off on one when they get called into a medical

seems to suggest that everybody should do likewise, and then continues to criticise those that don't or can't!

Not everybody has the same ability when it comes to making claims for a benefit. That is why it would appear from the posting that there is a two tier system - Those that complete a very lengthly ESA50, all backed up with evidence, witness statements etc are the ones that would appear to get the better award. The rest that can just about string a sentence together through no fault of their own, would appear to be at the mercy of the DWP/ATOS on what happens to them.

To me that is totally unfair!!

I thought that the DWP were responsible to ensure that there is a 'level playing field' amongst claimants of all levels of ability. It seems that you think that they shouldn't! Blame the claimant, why not, they are responsible for ensuring that their level of knowledge of the DWP processes as well as to how best complete these forms should be equal to those whose job it is to advise!

Like they say, and no doubt that you will agree, that money buys justice and that intelligence buys the best benefit award.

I cannot help it if someone cannot string a sentence together or complete forms. Yet again a whinging liberal who looks to highlight the failings or inability of the minority and blame the majority for something they cannot help.

Should I have acted illiterate or stupid or something and filled the forms in wrong? Should I have expected the assessor to have guessed what was wrong with me. Should I have laid back and wait to die of

As for knowledge of system, I am afraid I lack that completely, not being someone who sat on benefits since leaving School etc. I have a magical formula for completing forms, I start with question 1. and answer them in order to the best of my ability providing evidence to back my claims up! I don't want to rely on the DWP's mind reading dept to help me.

As for people who cannot do it for themselves, there are countless charities or groups such as the CAB or even here where they can get advice and help.

To say there is a two tier system is a stupid comment.

If you feel so strongly, I suggest you publish your address on here and tell those who:

1, Cannot do
2, Will not do
3, Cannot be bothered
4, Expect the world on a plate
5, Say they cannot

Send them all to you so you can do it for them! Good on you for volunteering.