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POPLA Decisions

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  • "I appreciate the parking operator has provided a copy of a sample NTK that does state this, however this has no bearing on my decision as the NTK that was sent to the registered keeper did not contain this information"

    This is shows the bias and lack of independence of Popla as they allow "evidence" submitted by a parking operator which is a changed version of the notice to keeper and instead of castigating Euro Car Parks for their attempt at abusing the appeals system they refer to it as 'appreciated" implying the fake evidence from the parking operator is welcomed and a positive engagement within the appeals process.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,702 Forumite
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    Hmmm... this means we are going to have to tell appellants to show the NTK they received (both sides) to POPLA as evidence in the appeal, in cases where they are saying POFA wording is missing, because the PPC might chuck in another version.

    Shocking.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • If this was via the legal system it would be classed as perverting the course of justice and that's pretty serious stuff.   They way popla are treating this behaviour shows the system is a joke and needs a proper regulator with teeth and the ability to ban or fine parking cowboys like euro car parks.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,702 Forumite
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    edited 14 January 2024 at 2:50AM
    If this was via the legal system it would be classed as perverting the course of justice and that's pretty serious stuff.  
    Sadly it wouldn't.

    If misleading or wrong evidence was fed in by a barrister, it would likely fly past the nose of a naive Circuit Judge - just like the wrong signs & lines (provided under a statement of truth) and an unsigned WS - wrong person signed it -  did in OPS v Wilshaw.

    A notoriously shambolic appeal decision, where HHJ Simpkiss at Lewes - who cheerfully admitted he had no background working experience of contract law - overturned a Judgment by a DDJ who'd spotted some of the issues and had made a robust first judgment. Simpkiss also declared wrongly, that parking firms don't have to have landowner authority and that the added £82 was for a 'DVLA trace' and that "these things cost money".

    And he failed to even consider his DUTY to apply the Consumer Rights Act test of fairness & prominence of the signs & terms, because instead, he lapped up every word from a barrister for OPS who was instructed to run with out of date (over a hundred years old) 'case law' that had not been trite law for years. 

    He then proceeded to make the 70 year old lady Defendant pay over £3000 in costs.  Which I crowdfunded for her in a week.

    The court system is a joke and there for the taking by any barrister if they get a credulous HHJ eating out of their hand.

    From an appeals perspective:

    The point is that we will need to be wary of the new Single Appeals Service because (even it ends up overseen by legally qualified people) you can't be sure those making decisions won't be easily led. At least at first.

    We are going to have to be all over the first few decisions made and might have to refer mistakes to the Scrutiny Board sharpish.

    At least there will be a Scrutiny Board!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • This is of course if it ever happens as the powers high up appear to keep stalling on implementing this?
  • Coupon mad wouldn't tell someone to say to popla they couldn't afford the charge...

    You can tell perky threads/usernames. They always hve numbers in the usernames


    I didn't tell the appellant to say that. I noticed that bit too, maybe she added it on the covering form as well as cutting off some words from the appeal. It was this thread below and the OP had already appealed giving away the driver (pre-POFA):

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4506249

    The OP did pm me to say Perky had sent a shedload of 'evidence' in response to POPLA later on which I asked to see but never did see it; she told me CPS had said the grace period was only a recommendation (it is not, it's a must):

    ''13 Grace periods

    13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a

    driver who enters your car park but decides not to park,

    to leave the car park within a reasonable period without

    having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.''


    What is the time limit of this? Is there any rule of that or accepted time for everyone?

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,702 Forumite
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    That's a really old post!

    Don't read this thread from page one.  Read it from the end backwards for relevant rules & decisions.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • Well done!

    Interesting on two counts:

    - you didn't raise the non-POFA NTK wording in your appeal!  Just shows the benefit of erring on the side of caution and not saying in any appeal who was driving.

    -  you said in your OP, that the NTK has the same wording as this one:
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6460975/ecp-ntk-for-overstaying-when-store-was-closed

    How the heck have we not noticed before, that supposedly 'POFA' ECP NTKs miss out the entire chunk of wording that should say that they "do not know who the driver was" and that "the keeper should pass the notice to them"?
    In case the keeper admits he is the driver but the notice doesn't include this warning, "they "do not know who the driver was" and that "the keeper should pass the notice to them"?

    What is the rule on this ground? 
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,355 Forumite
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    Sammy25uk said:
    Well done!

    Interesting on two counts:

    - you didn't raise the non-POFA NTK wording in your appeal!  Just shows the benefit of erring on the side of caution and not saying in any appeal who was driving.

    -  you said in your OP, that the NTK has the same wording as this one:
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6460975/ecp-ntk-for-overstaying-when-store-was-closed

    How the heck have we not noticed before, that supposedly 'POFA' ECP NTKs miss out the entire chunk of wording that should say that they "do not know who the driver was" and that "the keeper should pass the notice to them"?
    In case the keeper admits he is the driver but the notice doesn't include this warning, "they "do not know who the driver was" and that "the keeper should pass the notice to them"?

    What is the rule on this ground? 
    If the name of the driver has been provided to the parking firm, PoFA is out of the window, the warning (or lack of it) is irrelevant, there's no loophole there. 
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

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