IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including QR codes, number plates and reference numbers.

POPLA Decisions

1439440442444445455

Comments

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,343
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Forumite
    I've never seen this from POPLA before:

    "Although the BPA Code of Practice outlines what authorisation must set out my observations extend beyond checking documentation; it includes consideration of the fact that there is equipment, signage and on occasion personnel on site to manage the function of enforcement and this cannot happen without the landowner’s authority. I am sure that if the parking operator was not allowed to issue charges on site the landowner would not permit the parking operator to keep its signage on site nor would the landowner allow motorists to park on its land without authorisation."
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • B789
    B789 Posts: 3,441
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper Photogenic
    Forumite
    That's because the tea boy made the assessment. As intellectually malnourished as their PPC masters.
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 57,993
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    Forumite
    A PoPLA decision based on assumptions and whimsy, not on facts.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • Decision
    Successful
    Assessor Name
    Alexandra Roby
    Assessor summary of operator case

    The operator’s case is that the appellant parked longer than the maximum period allowed.

    Assessor summary of your case

    For the purpose of my report I have summarised the appellant’s grounds into the following points, and have checked each point before coming to my conclusion. The appellant says that: • the operator has not proven that it has the landowner’s authority to issue Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) on the land. • the Automatic Number Plate Recognition cameras are flawed as they record the time on site, but not the time parked. • the ANPR cameras cannot accurately determine whether the parking conditions have been breached. • the operator has not provided any evidence to show that the car was parked for the duration alleged. After reviewing the operator’s evidence, the appellant has provided comments.

    Assessor supporting rational for decision

    I am allowing this appeal with my reasoning below: POPLA’s role is to assess whether a PCN was issued correctly in accordance with the terms displayed on the signs at the site. Having reviewed the various images of the signs provided by the parking operator, I can see that the PCN amount is quoted as £85 on some of the signs, and £100 on others. As a result, I have been unable to determine whether the PCN was correctly. Although I acknowledge the appellant’s grounds of appeal, addressing them will not have any bearing on my decision. Accordingly, I must allow this appeal.

  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,140
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    Forumite
    @Danilou85 - nice win, but please tell us the name of the operator and the type of car park involved (and maybe location if you're happy to share) as otherwise we have no context to read your win against. 
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • @Umkomaas. Hi, it was in a Morrisons supermarket car park and the operator was Euro Car Parks.

    I had no idea that signage showing different fine amounts in the car park would mean my appeal would be successful - and if this helps anyone else, great!
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,140
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    Forumite
    Danilou85 said:
    @Umkomaas. Hi, it was in a Morrisons supermarket car park and the operator was Euro Car Parks.

    I had no idea that signage showing different fine amounts in the car park would mean my appeal would be successful - and if this helps anyone else, great!
    Thanks for update @Danilou85. For others reading this, Morrisons are the best supermarket for cancelling ECP (their universal car park operator) tickets. See the manager, take receipts (or bank/cc statement showing transaction) also previous receipts (showing regular patronage), your M's 'More' card. Yet to see any such request for cancellation refused. 
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Joity
    Joity Posts: 39
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    Forumite
    edited 7 August 2023 at 1:25PM
    Thank you all for the support in winning another appeal. 

    PCN - SECURE PARKING SOLOUTIONS - Page 5 — MoneySavingExpert Forum

    Decision
    Successful
    Assessor Name
    Adele Ditchfield
    Assessor summary of operator case

    The parking operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) as the vehicle VRM was not registered in the terminal.

    Assessor summary of your case

    The appellant has provided a word document appeal, this will be summarised only. The appellant has quoted section 13.1 of the British Parking Association code of practice. They say the driver is disabled and there were no signs visible from the car therefore it took them longer to find signs. they further say the signs are very high, inaccessible and unreadable therefore they left, which took longer due to being disabled. The appellant says signs are not well lit and rely on nearby street lighting. The appellant says there is a lack of entrance signs and signs within the car park which are non compliant with the British Parking Association code of practice. The appellant has stated the entrance signs make an offer to park for 1 hour but no mention of anything else. They say wording on signs are lengthy and small text. The appellant says there are no marked bays which causes confusion. The appellant says there are no road markings that outline the boundary and due to this, it is impossible to conclude this is a controlled area especially at night. The appellant has referred to another POPLA decision. The appellant states the parking operator do not have a valid contract with the landowner. The appellant says the Signs Fail to Transparently Warn Drivers of what the ANPR Data will be used for The appellant has provided a site map including signs within the car park.

    Assessor supporting rational for decision

    When entering onto a private car park such as this one, any motorist forms a contract with the operator by remaining on the land for a reasonable period. The signage in place sets out the terms and conditions of this contract. Part of the appellant’s appeal is that the signs are not visible from the vehicle for disabled motorists. They have also stated that a disabled motorist requires longer to look and read for signs. The evidence shows the appellant on site for 10 minutes and they have provided a blue badge within their appeal. The British Parking Association (BPA) code of practice states in section 13.1 The driver must have the chance to consider the Terms and Conditions before entering into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If, having had that opportunity, the driver decides not to park but chooses to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable consideration period to leave, before the driver can be bound by your parking contract. The amount of time in these instances will vary dependant on site size and type but it must be a minimum of 5 minutes. I am satisfied that it could take a disabled motorist longer to look for signs, return to the car and leave. Therefore, I am satisfied that 10 minutes is reasonable, and the consideration period should be extended. It is not necessary to address the remaining grounds of appeal. As such, I conclude that the PCN has been issued incorrectly. Accordingly, I must allow this appeal.

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,343
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Forumite
    edited 7 August 2023 at 3:10PM
    That's very reasonable of POPLA.  Methinks they are taking a little bit of notice of the fact that the new incoming DLUHC Code relies on operators complying with the EA.

    I reckon POPLA are hoping to pitch for the job of Single Appeals Service but if they do, they must:

    (a) apply the EA 2010 whether a person raises it or not;

    (b). Apply the CRA 2015 whether a person raises it or not;

    (c). Learn to count to 14 and apply the POFA 2012 properly, 
    whether a person raises it or not;

    (d). Sort out their hopeless (and easily avoidable) lack of understanding of Airport and Railway land, which has seen glaring errors in decisions re NSL at Stansted who told POPLA that 'POFA applies on Airport land' so POPLA just swallowed it and believed them.  Formal complaint acknowledged a month ago by the BPA:

    Dear Xxx,

    I hope you are well?

    Thank you for your email below which has been passed to myself to respond. 

    I have logged your complaint under reference BPA-044007 and will investigate the matter further.  As soon as I receive a response I will be in touch. 

    Kind regards

    Xxxxx Dxxxxx

    AOS Investigations Team


    [email protected]
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 341.8K Banking & Borrowing
  • 249.7K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.2K Spending & Discounts
  • 233.9K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 606.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 172.5K Life & Family
  • 246.8K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.8K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards