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POPLA Decisions

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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 152,078 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Ludicrous.  Sit tight, and defend if a claim arrives.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • Context - car was stopped on double yellow lines in front of the barriers to load/unload as allowed by the highway code (mentioned but missed by POPLA) as the mid-stay drop off barriers would not open. Car was stopped for 53 seconds. 

    Evidence pack also mentioned the driver stopped in a bus lane without evidence, POPLA completely ignored this. You also couldn't read the map from the businesses evidence pack but you can't raise new points of appeal in comments. 

    Its a shame frustration of contract is just a personal circumstance. 


    Decision

    Unsuccessful

    Assessor Name

    Natalie Matthews

    Assessor summary of operator case

    The operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) as dropping off or picking up outside designated areas.

    Assessor summary of your case

    The appellant has provided a detailed account of events. For the purpose of my report, I have summarised the grounds into the following points, and have checked each point before coming to my conclusion. The appellant says that: • Drop off car park in-accessible – business breach of contract and unfair penalty charge. • Inadequate signage. • No genuine pre-estimate of loss. The appellant reiterated their version of events in the motorist’s comments section. The appellant added additional comments in relation to grace period (13.1 of the British Parking Association code of practice). The vehicle did not park. Ineligible map and can’t enforce charges in this area. They added photographic evidence of their email conversation with the operator in support of their appeal. I have included this in my assessment.

    Assessor supporting rational for decision

    When entering onto a private car park such as this one, a motorist might form a contract with the parking operator by remaining on the land for a reasonable period. The signage in place sets out the terms and conditions of this contract. The operator has provided photographic evidence of the signage in place in the car park, which states: “RED ROUTE…No stopping at any time…ANPR enforcement in operation…Charge of £95 for infringements…” The operator has provided photographic evidence of the signage in place in the car park, which states: “Restricted Zone…No stopping at any time to drop off or pick up…CCTV and numberplate recognition in operation…This area is private land…” The operator has provided photographic evidence of the signage in place in the car park, which states: “Mid term car park…Up to 15 minutes FREE…” The operator has provided photographic evidence of the signage in place in the car park, which states: “PARKING CHARGE NOTICES ISSUED FOR BREACHES OF PARKING RESTRICTIONS…Dropping off/ Picking up outside designated parking area…The charge payable for a Parking Charge Notice is £95…” 

    The operator has provided video evidence of the driver picking up a passenger in an area that was not the pickup / drop off car park. They have also provided a site map with evidence of the signage and their position in the area. It appears a contract between the driver and the operator was formed, and the operator’s case file suggests the contract has been breached. 

    I will consider the appellant’s grounds of appeal to determine if they dispute the validity of the PCN. • Drop off car park in-accessible – business breach of contract and unfair penalty charge. I also note that the appellant added that the operator can’t provide evidence that the barriers were in operation on the date in question and that it does not make logical sense why they would stop before the entrance to a free pick up and drop off car park. I note the appellant's comments and can see that the barriers appear to not be working and can see the amount of traffic in the area. POPLA’s remit is to decide appeals based on facts, relevant law, and the applicable code of practice. This means that we cannot allow appeals on personal circumstances that prevented the motorist from keeping to the terms and conditions of the car park in question. Furthermore, as the vehicle has come to a halt for the purpose of stopping, parking, or waiting, it is therefore no longer in motion and is considered to be making use of the area. I can see that they were able to collect their passenger and have clearly gained utility by being stopped in an area they were not permitted to stop and pick their passenger up in. 

    In relation to their comment about breach of contract and unfair penalty, the appellant would need to take that up with the operator directly as POPLA is an independent body we are unable to become involved with anything to do with the costs, collections, or payments of the PCN or contract. If a motorist is unable to comply with the terms and conditions for whatever reason, then by choosing to stay, they risk contravening the terms and conditions of that car park, which remain in place regardless. Consequently, they are accepting the possibility of receiving a PCN. If such a situation arises, and the motorist wishes to avoid receiving a PCN, they should consider parking elsewhere. 

    • Inadequate signage. Signage can’t be seen from a moving car at night. I note the appellant's comments. I can see from the signage on site and the site map that there are several signs on the site. Additionally, there is a sign to the right of where the appellant was stopped which clearly states: ““Restricted Zone…No stopping at any time to drop off or pick up…CCTV and numberplate recognition in operation…This area is private land…”. The British Parking Association has a code of practice which sets the standards its operators need to comply with. Section 19.3 of the code says operators need to have signs that are clear and unambiguous and set out the terms and conditions. I am satisfied that the signage on site meets the BPA code of practice. I would also add that I acknowledge that it was dark, however I can see from the street lighting and lighting from the cars in the area that the area is sufficiently lit up and signage is visible. I am satisfied the signage on site meets the British Parking Association code of practice Appendix B which states that signage must be visible during the hours or darkness and have sufficient contrast and illumination. 

    • No genuine pre-estimate of loss. I note the appellant's remarks and understand they feel that they did not block any vehicles and that it was after 9pm on a Sunday evening which was and extremely quiet time. Although I note the appellant’s earlier version of events which state that it was incredibly busy – which I can see from the operator's video evidence. The Supreme Court considered private parking charges in a high-profile case, Parking Eye v Beavis, and decided that a charge did not need to be fair or reflect any loss to the landowner or operator. As the charge is in the region of £85 the judge ruled the charge allowable. The court’s full judgment in the case is available to read online should the appellant choose to. 

    • The appellant added additional comments in relation to grace period (13.1 of the British Parking Association code of practice). The vehicle did not park. Ineligible map and can’t enforce charges in this area. It should be noted that the motorist comments section is a place to expand upon the original grounds given and not to be used as a platform to introduce new grounds that the operator has not had the opportunity to review. As such, the new grounds of appeal given within the motorist comments section have been disregarded in this appeal response. Ultimately, it is the motorist’s responsibility to comply with the terms and conditions of the drop off zone. Upon consideration of the evidence, the appellant picked up a passenger outside the designated area, and therefore did not comply with the terms and conditions. There is always a human element to assessing PCN’s and sometimes refusing an appeal can feel uncomfortable nonetheless, when a breach of a contract has occurred, we cannot allow an appeal. As noted within my report above, I have refused this appeal.


  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 152,078 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    So according to that Assessor, you can't comment:

    (a) pointing out that the grace period rules in the BPA CoP have been broken, and/or

    (b) pointing out that a map in the evidence pack (that you've never seen before) is illegible!

    Which useless PPC is operating a (wholly inappropriate for the industrial area) no stopping zone, calling it a RED route but painting double YELLOW lines?!

    Why didn't the landowner cancel it?
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  • APCOA Luton Airport, I have contacted the Airport who referred me back to Apcoa to appeal which was swiftly rejected. I have chased them again. 

    Check outside the Mid-stay car park for the double yellow lines.

    As mentioned interestingly APCOA said I parked in a bus lane (which did not happen) which is similar to G1ll1anJ's post and the tickets were issued within a week of each other. 

    I wonder how many others they caught in that one evening due to the barriers who just decided to accept it. 


  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 152,078 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 8 February 2023 at 3:24PM
    Ah you can safely ignore APCOA.

    But you would have won easily, had you come here first and appealed as keeper, pointing out that the PCN was non-POFA.

    Should have been impossible to lose.
    Example here:
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79833812/#Comment_79833812
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • B789
    B789 Posts: 3,441 Forumite
    Fifth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Well done. However, I don't quite follow the Assessors reasoning in that "In this case the operator indicates that the appellants vehicle does not appear on the list of paid visitors. It has not provide a copy of the list it has described and as such has failed to prove that the terms and conditions have been breached."

    What term was breached? If the vehicle is claimed to not appear on the list, how would producing that list, which doesn't have the 
    vehicle details on it, breach anything?
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,385 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
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