Help! More T-mobile early termination woes

rearadmiral

Hi guys, I've read various threads on T-mobile early termination penalties but I've received a new take on it from T-mobile themselves. My minimum term expires on 23/3 but as I was going to be unavailable on 21/2, 30 days prior to the end date, I called T-mobile on 20/2 & asked if I could give 31 days notice to avoid an early termination penalty (ETP). I was told that even better than that, I could request a PAC code & could then keep my number. I agreed that option but a few days later I looked at my bill online & found a £20 ETP despite specifically stating in my phone call that I wanted to ensure I avoided this. I queried this yesterday & was told that even though I have paid 1 month in advance so I have fulfilled my minimum term payment obligation, they were taking the ETP to protect my old number. If they didn't make the charge, I would lose my number on expiry of the PAC code.

However, the fee would be refunded if I used the code & if I didn't, the fee would be credited to my next monthly bill. I didn't quite understand the last part as the monthly rental in advance isn't due to be charged until 24/3 having already paid up till 23/3 so part charging me now seems a tad premature. I felt a little bamboozled by this explanation as I'm no expert in this field. Have I been hoodwinked or do mobile networks have the right to take money that isn't owed yet & may never be owed if I use the PAC code?

Any help/advice appreciated.

grumbler

Mobile networks have the right to take charges listed in their tariff and charges.

If the charge is not listed, they have no right to apply it. As simple as that.

Re the possibility of losing your number once PAC expires, it's the first time I hear this. I would think that this is against Ofcom regulations.

http://ask.ofcom.org.uk/help/telephone/PAC

If it runs out, you will need to request a new PAC from your existing mobile provider.

Nothing indicates that it's conditional and a subject to some extra arrangements.

rearadmiral

Unfortunately I seem to be the recipient of some misinformation according to the link quoted above. (Thanks for that grumbler). Not too sure what I should do now & am particularly concerned having read various msgs. on this board about having to chase T-mobile for a few months before monies were refunded. Should I re-approach T-mobile or am I powerless?

grumbler

No, you are not powerless.
If they do overcharge you, follow their complaints procedure, then either complain to the ombudsman or just sue them via online small claims court.

rearadmiral

Thanks grumbler, I've just checked my account & found that my minimum term expires on 21/3 not the 23/3, the 23rd was just my bill date. In which case having asked for a PAC code on 20/2 means I was within the 30 days notice period so haven't terminated early at all. I'm even more confused by this early termination penalty now!

oopsadaisydoddle

Your ETP should be the charge between using the PAC and the 30 days it lasts for (IIRC). When did your number port to the new network?

Does your final bill include a refund for the line rental that you will have paid in advance? Although you may not have had a final bill yet?

rearadmiral

Haven't had the final bill yet so don't know about a refund, doddle. However, nor have I used the PAC code yet. They seem to want to charge me for the last month, which is fair enough, but also for terminating early despite the fact they've received payment for the last month & I haven't terminated anything yet, merely requested a PAC code. Frankly, I am uncomfortable with them making spurious charges & apparently using my bank account as if it's their own! Sorry if I sound frustrated....... but I am. ;~}

Buzby

To save grief, always take the billing date as your benchmark. Yes, there may be a few days in it, but it saves messy part-months - debits then an eventual credit. Life is to short to keep chasing your tail.

Silk

rearadmiral wrote: »

Haven't had the final bill yet so don't know about a refund, doddle. However, nor have I used the PAC code yet. They seem to want to charge me for the last month, which is fair enough, but also for terminating early despite the fact they've received payment for the last month & I haven't terminated anything yet, merely requested a PAC code. Frankly, I am uncomfortable with them making spurious charges & apparently using my bank account as if it's their own! Sorry if I sound frustrated....... but I am. ;~}

If you don't use the pac code or give notice to terminate the contract the contract will continue.
You need to decide what you are going to do

ric3vic

I had a similar situation with T-Mobile. I checked the date of the end of my initial agreement and was assured that there would be no early termination penalty. The first bill I had after using the PAC showed my payment, including 30 days after the notice, as well as an early termination penalty. The phone support was confused and unhelpful, the rep seeming to insist that the penalty was because I had used the PAC within 28 days of issue.
I wrote, formally, to their complaints dept, disputing the bill. THere was nothing emotive, but I made it clear that I was prepared to test the case in small claims court. Almost by return I had a very pleasant call from a rep who wrote off the ETP without question.
ETPs are a nice little earner for T-mob (and others) because they enable the provider to charge for a service which they don't have to provide. But the hassle of arguing them with someone who is prepared to stick by contract law, and the danger of losing in court (which would undermine the basis on which they are charged) makes them unwilling to push the principle too hard.
What did I learn from this: know the dates, argue the case on facts, and in writing, not with front line phone support.

rearadmiral

I think it also depends on who you speak to in CS. Just finished calling T-mob & spoke to someone else & they've now happily agreed to cancel the charge once I told them that I didn't intend using the PAC till 2 days before expiry. I still don't understand the logic as if I used the PAC immediately, they'd still charge me for the final month thus I would have fulfilled my financial minimum term obligation, albeit without using the service for the last month. However, despite not using your service for the last month as you've transferred to another provider, they will also charge you an ETP on top of the line rental thus double charging you for the month, but if you don't use your PAC till the last day & so use their service till the last day, there's no ETP. This doesn't appear to make business sense as in the 1st scenario they're getting paid for a service that isn't being used yet will charge you extra in the form of an ETP, for the privelege.

One final point, if you start a new contract with another provider, is there a time constraint on when you give them your PAC or can you give them a PAC at any time during the contract?