'A generation of Muslims not able to go to university?' blog discussion

Rafter

From what I understand about this, it is the use of the word 'interest' that is the problem. If the 3% was described as a fee or markup then it would potentially be sharia compliant. I have certainly seen sharia savings products with the 'rate' shown, it is just described differently and not as interest.

In any case, it would seem far better to stop describing it as a student loan and instead as a grant repayable from future earnings to get over this perception by potential students that they are 'borrowing' large sums that may never have to be paid back and which don't appear on their credit record.

jamesd

One difficulty here is that some Islamic scholars are of the opinion that even interest that matches RPI is prohibited. If applied that means it would require a lender to make a loss on the loan, because a lender will want to be repaid with the same real value of money as the money they lent.

Different prices aren't prohibited so one possible option is a higher course or initial price for borrowed money where it's a business venture with the profit based on the future earnings of the student.

torbrex wrote: »

Its their choice, why should a whole country pander to the choice of a single religious group?

The whole country doesn't have to do anything. It's more like some religions and abortion. It's very rare for abortion to be forced but for some religions they may expel the person from the religion if they use an abortion. It's useful for society to try to have inclusive options available. That might end up being at higher cost for some groups, or structured differently, as Islamic mortgages are. The role of law here is in part ensuring it's possible to comply, wherever that doesn't conflict with some more fundamental right. You may not know it but we have the extremely useful income drawdown option for pensions today in part because of a provision a few years ago that was made for a religious group that prohibited speculating on life and hence prohibited buying a pension annuity. Sometimes the gains are not limited solely to a specific religious group.

[Deleted User]

worried_jim wrote: »

It certainly hasn't hindered admissions at Leicester's De Monfort University.

I went there many years ago. Plenty of them there....

[Deleted User]

Hang on now - the laws of the land say that charging interest is perfectly legal. I don't have a problem with this.

The laws of the land also say that you are able to follow the religion of your choice. Again, I have no problem with that - do what you want.

But then people following said religion have a problem with something that is perfectly legal in this country. Hmmm. I would say you have a few choices here:-

1. Campaign in a democratic fashion to get the law changed IN A WAY THAT EVERY CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY HAS.

2. Accept that thats the law and the way things work IN A WAY THAT EVERY CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY HAS.

3. Leave the country and go and live somewhere else where you like the laws better IN A WAY THAT EVERY CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY HAS.

Also, can you imagine going to Saudi Arabia and telling them your upset with their laws because it affects your christian religion? What do you think would happen?

Pikachu47

The Islamic mortgage is just a rewording of interest to rent.

They call it rent, but it's the same thing as a standard mortgage, otherwise I'd have one, as I'd end up paying back exactly what I bought my house for. Much better than my current mortgage plan.

The student loan is the same. If anything is changed, it'll only be the wording of what they are getting. They'll stil lbe paying interest except it will be called "shiny mystical service charge" instead.

Eonel

Islamic finance products always include a financial reward for the lender representing the risk of lending to a borrower + a surplus.

The distinction between this and "interest" is a point of principle and a choice of words. No-one should deny themselves or their children an education over a choice of words - and we should not pander towards it either.

sharnad

[quote=[Deleted User];59789603]Hang on now - the laws of the land say that charging interest is perfectly legal. I don't have a problem with this.

The laws of the land also say that you are able to follow the religion of your choice. Again, I have no problem with that - do what you want.

But then people following said religion have a problem with something that is perfectly legal in this country. Hmmm. I would say you have a few choices here:-

1. Campaign in a democratic fashion to get the law changed IN A WAY THAT EVERY CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY HAS.

2. Accept that thats the law and the way things work IN A WAY THAT EVERY CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY HAS.

3. Leave the country and go and live somewhere else where you like the laws better IN A WAY THAT EVERY CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY HAS.

Also, can you imagine going to Saudi Arabia and telling them your upset with their laws because it affects your christian religion? What do you think would happen?[/QUOTE]


You forgot a fourth one use the laws as they are now to fit in wth your religion. thre are already islamic banks im sure thy can help work something out

juliamarsh

The Government should not be charging real interest on student loans in the first place - to anybody. Young people should not be penalised for getting an education, the Government should cover its costs by charging the rate of inflation but no more. This would be acceptable to Muslim students and to other students too, whose debts would be marginally less massive by the end of their course. I am amazed that there is not more opposition to this issue of the 3% interest, I think many students must not be fully aware of it.

ian_duncan_smith

I find this discussion very interesting.

Firstly, certain people have alluded to laws in Saudi Arabia being at odds with Western Culture and asked what would happen if they asked for concessions over there.

Alcohol. Allowed for non-muslims in the privacy of their own home.

Pub-culture, clubbing, lewd sexulised behaviour. Get drunk dance the night away and engage in casual sex to your heart's content within special zones. So long as you don't subject the "natives" to harrasment whilst in a state of intoxication they don't care what you get up to amongst yourselves. Much the same as allowing Muslim employees here to take their midday break at prayer time and go off and pray in private as opposed to praying in the middle of the shop floor or supermarket floor where it would interfere with the running of the business.

The Indian equivalent of X-Factor was won by a person of Japanese heritage a couple of years ago. The first time the issue of his racial heritage was raised was by a British ex-pat after the final during an audiance question and answer session after the finals. Compare that to when Coco Khan appeared on Who Wants To Be Millionaire here in the UK where Chris Tarrant felt compelled to point out straight away that she was an Asian Woman.

As for Muslims in education, pass as many laws as you want with a view to discouraging them, but tell me this: If you exclude them from the only environment left where they can engage with people of white British origin and other non-muslim groups who are capable of presenting an alternative intellectual point of view without lacing it with overtly racist bigoted comments, when do you expect them:

1. To come around to your way of thinking?
2. To integrate into secular society?

Fire_Fox

[quote=[Deleted User];59789469]I went there many years ago. Plenty of them there....[/QUOTE]

Them?? As opposed to 'us'? :rotfl: