Is Vista OK?

wolfman

albertross wrote: »

In these days of bb with routers, software firewalls aren't as necessary, especially when everyone just ticks allow everytime they get an outbound popup.

Hmm I'd heavily disagree. A typical ADSL Modem/Router combo comes with NAT protection which at its simplest level is not much more than a port blocker. It doesn't take account for port hijacking, and has no outbound protection, let allow protection once something is inside the network.

The best approach to protection is a layered approach of different types of protection.

A software firewall has its place, in that it works on a per pc, and per application basis. What goes out from your pc, can be just as important as what it trying to get in.


For Vista, so far I've just used the standard firewall. I too like Kerio, but it doesn't yet have a Vista version. I think there is a version due out, but I've only read that is due "sometime in the future".

BillScarab

The Vista firewall is a little better than the XP one but configuring the outbound protection is not easy or obvious. I believe all fothe well know free firewalls are being developed to work on Vista but none are available yet.

albertross_2

The point I'm making is what percentage of joe public bothers to analyse every prompt for access to the internet by an application or component, and what percentage ticks allow to every prompt. I reckon 99% of people tick allow when given a prompt, which makes the outbound protection redundant. Everything and it's dog is internet aware nowadays, you can't even run Windows help without it trying to talk to the outside world, the inevitable consequence is that most people tick allow.

The primary function of any firewall is port blocking, which is why a Nat'd router is a good idea, the outside world can't get in, because the PC has a local IP address, which isn't routeable.

Icon_3

JonnyThunder wrote: »

I've also been running Vista since the first pre-release candidate. I bought Ultimate when it was released and haven't turned back. There are however, some things i'd do to Vista as soon as its installed.

• Turn off UAC
• Turn off indexing
• Take an image backup using the tool provided

How do you turn off indexing? According to Help and Support the index can't be turned off or paused!

JonnyThunder

Remove the locations it has listed in "indexing options" (control panel). Also look at the other options which can be disabled for better performance in the link I posted earlier.

I agree with Albertross.... nowadays, a router will provide most of the security a home user would need. Software firewalls do little more than make you more paranoid than you already are. The Windows firewall in combination with a hardware firewall is plenty for the average Joe.

wolfman

albertross wrote: »

The point I'm making is what percentage of joe public bothers to analyse every prompt for access to the internet by an application or component, and what percentage ticks allow to every prompt. I reckon 99% of people tick allow when given a prompt, which makes the outbound protection redundant. Everything and it's dog is internet aware nowadays, you can't even run Windows help without it trying to talk to the outside world, the inevitable consequence is that most people tick allow.

Yeah I saw the point you were making after writing the post, and I do know what you mean.

Still though, that's a user problem, and doesn't mean it shouldn't be installed, but rather that users should be educated. Also for a lot of firewalls, there's a "simple" mode. Kerio for example, which is pre-set with many typical values so there are less prompts.

JonnyThunder wrote: »

I agree with Albertross.... nowadays, a router will provide most of the security a home user would need. Software firewalls do little more than make you more paranoid than you already are. The Windows firewall in combination with a hardware firewall is plenty for the average Joe.

A router does provide "most" of the protection, what it doesn't provide is:
- Outbound protection
- Port hijacking, or working on a per application basis per port
- Provide unique protection per pc
- Provide any sort of local (within your network) protection
- Any form of user interaction. Ok so a lot of prompts can be bad, but with a router you'll know nothing.

A combination of a router and software firewall sorts all of that. Some may sat it's being overly paranoid, but that's usually a good approach given today world and the lengths people will go to just to get at you.

JonnyThunder

Wolfman wrote:

A router does provide "most" of the protection, what it doesn't provide is:
- Outbound protection
- Port hijacking, or working on a per application basis per port
- Provide unique protection per pc
- Provide any sort of local (within your network) protection
- Any form of user interaction. Ok so a lot of prompts can be bad, but with a router you'll know nothing.

See, I don't understand why i'd need outbound protection. And surely the windows firewall provides unique protection per pc? And why would I need local network protection? Surely if i've got a hacker in my house, i'd have seen him by now? :rotfl:

I think one of the reasons I like router protection is because most people don't know how to faff with it. Your average user hasn't a clue how to set firewall rules - so by ommision of computer knowledge they are protecting themselves more! I've even seen users who have managed to set their router passwords, only to forget what they are later!

I hear what you're saying tho - but I reckon it's being over-paranoid. The biggest threat to home computers at the moment is malware. It's often overlooked and almost always the reason for most computer problems i've seen in the last few years (WAY ahead of viruses and attacks from the outside world). Though it has to be said, sometimes malware works WITH a hackers attempts.

Im going to surround my computer with a tinfoil / rubber combination to stop brainwaves from advanced beings, from interrupting my game of solitaire!

wolfman

JonnyThunder wrote: »

See, I don't understand why i'd need outbound protection. And surely the windows firewall provides unique protection per pc? And why would I need local network protection? Surely if i've got a hacker in my house, i'd have seen him by now? :rotfl:

Heh

Rogue apps or viruses trying to "phone home". Any sort of key logger etc trying to send back information it's logged from your pc. Viruses trying to send spam via your pc etc... You say Malware is the biggest threat, but that's exactly what these sort of things are. Malware can be a virus, trojan, keylogger, worm etc...

The XP firewall only provides inbound protection, and doesn't do/respond much. In terms of use it's no different from a router. A decent firewall like Kerio is a much better choice. The Vista firewall now provides outbound protection, which can only show that it's something being adopted. It's ok-ish from what I've seen, but I still prefer something like Kerio.

Also for local protection. Say if someone does gain access to one of your pc's, or you bring home something that is infected on a usb stick, or a virus is trying to spread, your whole network could easily be affected.

With only a router once something is inside, it can do whatever it wants, and can even send data outbound without any problems. Hardly a good way of running things. And the fact that Windows now includes a firewall with outbound protection can only highlight that it's worth having.

JonnyThunder

I understand what you're saying - but I just think we're over-paranoid as a nation already! Take for example video cameras. We aren't allowed to put a video camera on the outside of our own houses because it's an infringement on other peoples rights! We can't take video footage of our kids at a school play (without other peoples consent) in case we're paedophiles. We now have to call a black board a chalk board because of it's possible racial slur. We can't call the internals of a toilet systern a 'ball-c0ck' system because of the femenist movement!

We're getting worse every day. And now with computers, we overprotect to the point where the PC runs like a dog - JUST to avoid the possibility of something that may never happen! Antivirus, anti-spyware, anti-spam, firewalls and the list goes on and on.

[/end_rant]

Ahhh, I feel soo much better now. Think it's coffee break time!

superscaper

JonnyThunder wrote: »

Take for example video cameras. We aren't allowed to put a video camera on the outside of our own houses because it's an infringement on other peoples rights!

Of course you are, as long as it is only viewing your own property/land. That's always been the case. School videos, Blackboard (I think you're generalising over a few media hyped instances, I certainly still hear it being called a blackboard), ballcock (never even heard of anywhere that didn't still call it this). Now who's being over-paranoid about everything being too PC?