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Solicitor has potentially lost latest will

Whilst going through my mother's papers following her recent death we have found uncertified photocopies of two wills one made in 1991 and one made in 2006 along with correspondence to the effect that the originals were being stored by the solicitor that drew them up.

Having contacted the solicitors concerned they are currently only able to find the original of the 1991 will. This puts us in a difficult position as my mother's estate is liable for inheritance tax and several of the companies holding investments that form part of the estate will not release valuations without sight of a certified copy of the the signed original will to prove that we are executors. Without these valuations we can't complete the tax forms and without the tax forms we can't apply for probate.

So my questions are should the solicitor prove be unable to find the signed original of the 2006 will:
  • Is it possible to have the uncertified photocopy that we hold certified and the produce certified copies from that?
  • What redress do we have against the solicitor for losing the will given that we have evidence that they notified my mother that they were storing it and were paid money to to so?
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Comments

  • batchoy
    batchoy Posts: 24 Forumite
    Mortgage-free Glee!
    As an additional note I'm not best pleased with the Solicitor, I was aware of the 1991 will when I did the probate on my father's estate in 2006 but not that a new will had been drawn up in 2006. From the correspondence that my mother kept it appears that following my father's death the Solicitor convinced my mother to make a new Will and charged a significant amount for drawing it up and storing it. However comparing side by side they are identical apart from the fact that in the 1991 Will there was a section on my mother predeceasing my father which is not in the 2006 Will. The wording of the 1991 means that as things stand now there is no difference in its effects and those of the 2006 will, meaning the drawing up the 2006 will achieved nothing other than adding to the solicitor's coffers.
  • Mojisola
    Mojisola Posts: 35,571 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    batchoy wrote: »
    Having contacted the solicitors concerned they are currently only able to find the original of the 1991 will.
    batchoy wrote: »
    The wording of the 1991 means that as things stand now there is no difference in its effects and those of the 2006 will, meaning the drawing up the 2006 will achieved nothing other than adding to the solicitor's coffers.

    In which case you can forget about chasing up the 2006 will and go ahead using the 1991 original.
  • YesWillMan
    YesWillMan Posts: 83 Forumite
    edited 27 February 2013 at 11:58PM
    Mojisola wrote: »
    In which case you can forget about chasing up the 2006 will and go ahead using the 1991 original.

    The first few lines of the 2006 Will would have revoked all former wills and dispositions so therefore the 1991 will was revoked.
    The Probate Court would be the best to approach explaining the circumstances
    and sending them copies of each will.
    Was the copy of the 2006 will a copy of the signed will?
    If so the details of the witnesses would then be known and they can sign an affadavit that the will was signed in front of them.
    Thus with other confirming information from the Solicitors the Probate Court would then be more inclined to grant Probate on the 2006 Will.

    However I feel that the Solicitor was wrong to charge excessive amounts for the revised will if it did no more than reaffirm the earlier will. I assume if the Solicitor dealt with the estate in 2006 that he charged for his services in this regard as well.
  • batchoy
    batchoy Posts: 24 Forumite
    Mortgage-free Glee!
    Yes the very first paragraph of the 2006 Will revokes all previous wills.

    Luckily the copy of the 2006 Will that I have is a photocopy of the signed and witnessed original, but it is not certified as being a true copy so it might be possible to get affadavits from from the original witnesses. With witnesses being employees of the solicitor I am pretty certain we hold a strong enough hand that we could get any legal work entailed done for nothing since we are in this position due to their negligence.

    However my biggest and most immediate problem is that there are handful of companies that hold assets belonging the estate who will not release valuations of those assets until I can provide a certified copy of the Will that shows that I have the right to the information as the executor of the estate. Without this information I can't complete the IHT and Probate forms to actually be able to apply to the Probate Court.
  • batchoy wrote: »
    However my biggest and most immediate problem is that there are handful of companies that hold assets belonging the estate who will not release valuations of those assets until I can provide a certified copy of the Will that shows that I have the right to the information as the executor of the estate. Without this information I can't complete the IHT and Probate forms to actually be able to apply to the Probate Court.

    I found that a certified copy of the death certificate with covering letter was adequate to be provided with the financial information from most institutions.

    I don't remember using a certified copy of the will for that purpose; it was needed to open an executor's account.

    And you do have six months before interest on IHT becomes payable, if that is your situation.

    I'd say you have a case for pursuing the errant solicitors vigorously to sort this out quickly, although it sounds as though you'll have to check their work thoroughly and keep at it with them!

    I wonder if your solicitors are the same ones that never told me I was an executor for my mother's estate, and persuaded my dad to let them do the administration despite there being capable executors named?
  • getmore4less
    getmore4less Posts: 46,882 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper I've helped Parliament
    I was not a named executor

    I never needed a will for the assets valuatuons,

    Just sent a notification letter with a request for assets held along with the death certificate. All replied with the relevent details.
  • Mojisola
    Mojisola Posts: 35,571 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    YesWillMan wrote: »
    The first few lines of the 2006 Will would have revoked all former wills and dispositions so therefore the 1991 will was revoked.

    The Probate Court would be the best to approach explaining the circumstances and sending them copies of each will.

    Was the copy of the 2006 will a copy of the signed will?
    If so the details of the witnesses would then be known and they can sign an affadavit that the will was signed in front of them.
    Thus with other confirming information from the Solicitors the Probate Court would then be more inclined to grant Probate on the 2006 Will.

    If the copy of the 2006 will isn't a photocopy of the signed version, there may not be any evidence that it was signed and so the earlier will may not have been revoked.
  • batchoy
    batchoy Posts: 24 Forumite
    Mortgage-free Glee!
    edited 28 February 2013 at 1:33PM
    Mojisola wrote: »
    If the copy of the 2006 will isn't a photocopy of the signed version, there may not be any evidence that it was signed and so the earlier will may not have been revoked.

    It is a signed but uncertified photocopy.

    Whether people have got away with just giving sight of the death certificate in the past (it was all we needed in 2006 when we did my fathers probate), my current experience is that with institutions holding assets of £5K or less there has been no issue with them accepting just my word over the telephone, they have not even required sight of the death certificate. For assets between £5k and £10K they are asking for sight of the death certificate, but for assets over £10K it appears to be common practice to ask for sight of death certificate, the will and a written authorisation from my brother (joint executor) to act on his behalf. In the case of one of the banks in addition to the death certificate, will and authorisation letter they want proofs of our identity as well.

    The other problem that we will hit tomorrow is that some of the accounts that we can't sort out due to the lack of an original Will and certified copies have standing orders which will automatically be settled, leaving us with the problem of having to try and recover the monies at some point in the future.
  • troubleinparadise
    troubleinparadise Posts: 1,120 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 28 February 2013 at 4:21PM
    batchoy wrote: »
    The other problem that we will hit tomorrow is that some of the accounts that we can't sort out due to the lack of an original Will and certified copies have standing orders which will automatically be settled, leaving us with the problem of having to try and recover the monies at some point in the future.

    So these institutions are keeping the accounts active despite being informed of the death of the account holder and having a certified copy of the death certificate?

    whilst they may not be willing to send you information or make payments, I'm afraid I cannot understand why they cannot just stop the accounts immediately.
  • getmore4less
    getmore4less Posts: 46,882 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper I've helped Parliament
    They should be closing all the accounts on receipt of the death cert.

    I would hope you have been sending death certificates anyway with a letter asking for the relevent information(account ballance on DOD and the tax relevent data on the account.

    The extra info is usually only needed to collect the funds something you don't need to do yet.
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