Transferring property into sons name

dunstonh

All I am going to say is that the comments about deprivation of assets and tax are correct.

Once you know care is needed (and sheltered accommodation comes under that), it is too late to do anything. It can be classed as deprivation of assets and under the means test, they can include the value. Even if there is no means test taking place now. That could be years down the road but they can look back (and usually do).

The Govt isnt stupid and they put in place rules to stop people doing this sort of thing. If it had been done years ago and with a valid reason (such as estate planning) and it was just a happy coincidence that it avoids the means test then that is fine. However, intentionally doing it to get benefits falls foul of the rules.

ANGLICANPAT

If it had been done years ago for 'estate planning ' --isnt the latter done specifically to avoid taxes that would normally be due to the Govt, so couldnt you be 'got' on those grounds anyway?--in which case wouldnt the change of ownership of the property be ignored as regards care home payments?

Mojisola

ANGLICANPAT wrote: »

If it had been done years ago for 'estate planning ' --isnt the latter done specifically to avoid taxes that would normally be due to the Govt, so couldnt you be 'got' on those grounds anyway?--in which case wouldnt the change of ownership of the property be ignored as regards care home payments?

"Estate planning" involves tax avoidance, not evasion, and is legal so there wouldn't be any problems with it.

Gers

Whilst I am in broad agreement with the areas of ensuring proper procedures I'd be happy to know at what stage in one's life can the disposal of monies be deemed 'safe' from the cries of 'deprivation of assets'?

If I am 30 years of age (I wish BTW) and give my nearest or dearest a large gift of monies (ditto ^^) then will I still be given this advice?

Or is it 40 years of age? 50 years of age? 60 years of age? Or any age?

What if I am 30 years of age (again) and give my nearest or dearest a large gift of monies and then suddenly and unexpectedly, 2, 5 or 10 years later, become in need of a care home can I still be subjected to the draconian 'deprivation of assets' claim?

Please be assure I do take this subject seriously and understand fully the ramifications of such actions when they are used to avoid fees, however I don't understand when it comes into being?

Gers

dunstonh wrote: »

All I am going to say is that the comments about deprivation of assets and tax are correct.

Agree entirely

dunstonh wrote: »

Once you know care is needed (and sheltered accommodation comes under that) it is too late to do anything.

Why does the need for sheletered accommodation necessarily lead to needing a nursing/residential home?

dunstonh wrote: »

The Govt isnt stupid and they put in place rules to stop people doing this sort of thing. If it had been done years ago and with a valid reason (such as estate planning) and it was just a happy coincidence that it avoids the means test then that is fine. However, intentionally doing it to get benefits falls foul of the rules.

HOW many years is enough to avoid the charge of deprivation of assets? Actually have asked this in another post.

I am in total agreement about the need to be aware of rules regarding deprivation of assets and do not under-estimate the importance of it. Just get teed off with the viciousness of some posters who pounce on unsuspecting people who ask for advice. Not all I hasten to add!

Mojisola

Gers wrote: »

Whilst I am in broad agreement with the areas of ensuring proper procedures I'd be happy to know at what stage in one's life can the disposal of monies be deemed 'safe' from the cries of 'deprivation of assets'?

If I am 30 years of age (I wish BTW) and give my nearest or dearest a large gift of monies (ditto ^^) then will I still be given this advice?

Or is it 40 years of age? 50 years of age? 60 years of age? Or any age?

What if I am 30 years of age (again) and give my nearest or dearest a large gift of monies and then suddenly and unexpectedly, 2, 5 or 10 years later, become in need of a care home can I still be subjected to the draconian 'deprivation of assets' claim?

Please be assure I do take this subject seriously and understand fully the ramifications of such actions when they are used to avoid fees, however I don't understand when it comes into being?

The big problem is that there aren't any precise rules and, if you ask the DWP beforehand, no-one will say whether what you're planning to do would be acceptable or not.

The DWP and/or LA are supposed to be able to prove you made plans in order to claim means tested benefits. In effect, it sometimes seems that, unless you can give a good reason why you gave the money or house away, they assume that your reason was to deprive yourself of capital.

There is also no legal time limit for them to go back and see what capital you have given away.

Obviously, any totally unexpected life event would leave you in the clear. Also, if you were older and fit and healthy and not expecting to claim benefits, you might be in the clear.

What would be a good reason for giving away your house? Or handing over the bulk of your money to other people?

atush

You can do it if you are in excellent health, and are not going into SA, or have a condition that may in future require residential care.

IE before you decide you Need to sell the family home to go into sheltered accomodation.

Generally I would say from 30's to 50-60's but everyone and their health is different.

someone who gets Motor neuron D at 30 will have to worry, someone will full health and no need to go into SA at 60 won't.

atush

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunstonh
All I am going to say is that the comments about deprivation of assets and tax are correct.

Gers: Agree entirely

when did you agree with this? Before or after you disagreed when I said it?

Gers

Mojisola wrote: »

What would be a good reason for giving away your house? Or handing over the bulk of your money to other people?

Thanks for the well reasoned response - much better than the stalker!

A valid reason would be inheritance tax planning - all within the allowed and legal guidelines from HMRC. A PET gift has a seven year taper. If the gifter is of sound health I'm not sure how they can anticipate the need for local authority financial support. Even if I were 75 (not for a while) and in good health with no foreseeable massive problems and gave my nearest or dearest a substantial gift under HMRC regulations and then became in sudden need of a care home (car accident etc) I can't see how the earlier gift becomes a problem.

Yes, I do understand the differences. And yes, I do understand the need to be aware. I don't understand the swooping of the nasty comments towards those who ask an innocent question or those who offer a balanced view.

Thanks for replying.

Mojisola

Gers wrote: »

A valid reason would be inheritance tax planning - all within the allowed and legal guidelines from HMRC.

That would only be a valid argument if you gave away enough to reduce your capital to below the IHT levels but that would still leave you plenty to pay for your own care.

It wouldn't stand as an argument if all you left yourself with was under £23k.