Possible redundancy when working few hours.

Eliza_2

I've been working in an independent shop for about 6 years and because of falling sales we are now overstaffed. I work around 18 hours a month, mostly on Sunday so although on minimum wage when I work during the week, I get enhanced pay for Sunday. However I am called in a lot during the month on weekdays if someone rings in sick or whatever. I often drop everything and can be in within an hour to work half a day and still get min wage (which often only just pays for my petrol to get there)

The owner and the manager are meeting next week and have already said there will be lay offs, just not who. Many of the others are more indispensable than me as they do other things like ordering stock etc whereas I mainly just do shop floor stuff so I suspect I will be first on the list. When this situation happened a couple of years ago one of the assistants was asked to leave, which she meekly did, no talk of redundancy or anything. She quickly got another job but that's not the point.

If they call me in, what rules should they be following and what should I ask for in terms of redundancy pay. I suspect they don't know the rules, as they don't about so many other aspects of employment law, so I want to be on solid ground if I'm called in. Or even able to advise one of my good friends there if they are asked to leave.

Sorry, I know there's lots on here about redundancy but thought that working so few hours might be a different situation.

Thank you - Liz

getmore4less

Will depend on your contract and service, too many "abouts".

Redundancy if you qualify is based on a "weeks pay" there are ways to calculate this and will depend on the contract, also it is currently capped at £350(not an issue on your min wage hours).

From the relevent date(usualy the termination date) you count back full years and get 0.5,1,1.5 weeks pay for each completed year based on age.

so for 18 hours a month on min wage and 6 full years below aged between 22 and 42 the payout would be around £6.19*4.5*6 £167.13.


Why on earth are you dropping everything and going in for just the petrol money?

Eliza_2

Thank you very much for this answer, very helpful. I only have a very old contract which was mostly incorrect (taken from a free website and American) and generic, not related to my work. I imagine general employment law would come into operation in the absence of a sensible contact however. There has been recent talk of updating contracts but this hasn't yet happened. Predictably, since writing this initial email, I've been texted that my extra hours for the next month have been cancelled and a letter is on its way to us all.

It would be really helpful if you could help me to work out how the relevant weekly hours might be calculated - generally it's 5.5 hours a week plus a few odd ones when I'm called in to do a bit extra, though this varies. Do I just try to work out an average? Incidentally I'm 62 if that makes a difference.

I go in to work for a few odd hours because I like the old guy who owns the place and wouldn't want to let him down, I also like and feel sorry for the admin lady who sorts staff rotas, she is stuck between inept management and unreliable staff and I don't want to make life any harder for her. I don't go in when I can see I wouldn't break even petrol-wise.

Co-incidentally I have today been involved in re-organising of my hours in another job (which pays shed loads more per hour) and I will be able to decide myself how may hours I work there, as many hours as I like, so financially will be fine.

While the money won't matter, the principle certainly does. Many thanks. Liz

getmore4less

At 62 all 6 years would be at 1.5 weeks pay per year

When did you start is it going to be 5 or 6years.

Notice will be 5/6 weeks, have you been getting holiday pay?

As for weekly hours it will depend on the contract or what has been estabished through regular rotas. it may be the fixed scheduled hours or if it can be shown that the hours are variable there are some calculations for averaging

if it is 5.5 hours and 6 years then that would be £6.19 * 5.5hr * 6 *1.5 £306.41

if they need people to go what about offering to leave for a pay off.

Eliza_2

Thank you. It was actually 6 years last October so your calculation stands. I have been getting annual leave calculated through the usual formula for part timers.

The rota says 18 hours a month but as I said, every month there have been additional hours, often at last minute. I haven't had a standard 18 hour pay month for ages now.

£306 or thereabouts will do me very nicely thank you!! I'm going to see how it goes and yes, asking for a pay off might be the way to go, especially now I have a benchmark - maybe ask £500? Will see which way the wind is blowing.

Many thanks for your guidance - Liz

zzzLazyDaisy

Be aware that only contractual hours count for calculating redundancy pay; over-time and extra hours don't count. The only time where averaging comes into play is where you have a zero hours or flexible contract with no stated hours, and then the hours are averaged out over the previous 12 weeks actually worked.

So if your normal rota's hours are a steady 18hrs, and the remaining hours are ad-hoc, as and when needed, it seems very likely that the redundancy pay would be calculated on the core 18 hrs.

What does your existing contract say about your contractual hours?

Eliza_2

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

Be aware that only contractual hours count for calculating redundancy pay; over-time and extra hours don't count. The only time where averaging comes into play is where you have a zero hours or flexible contract with no stated hours, and then the hours are averaged out over the previous 12 weeks actually worked.

So if your normal rota's hours are a steady 18hrs, and the remaining hours are ad-hoc, as and when needed, it seems very likely that the redundancy pay would be calculated on the core 18 hrs.

What does your existing contract say about your contractual hours?

It doesn't say anything about my hours. It's old and very general, could be relevant to anyone working there on whatever hours. When I started there I was working on more hours, but no contract materialised until around year 3 when this generic one appeared for all of us which is the same and interchangeable for everyone there. It's very out of date; has a clause about having to leave when 65 for example. No-one ever has, staff have worked into their 70s there, and no reason why not. The owner is in his mid 70s, works full time and has no intention of retiring.

Thanks all, I'm going to see how things go and what this letter says, then probably ask for a pay off. Very grateful for all of the advice, lots I understand now that I didn't before.

getmore4less

Eliza wrote: »

I have been getting annual leave calculated through the usual formula for part timers.

Best to say what you get or what calculation they use there is no usual one for part timers

It should work out to at least 5.6 weeks but that will depend on what full timers get it could be more.